2 deck 30,000 BJ Tournament! Need Help!

My question is, has anyone ever played in a 2 deck, what they call a 2 deck flip turny? It is a $30,000 turny and I and my girlfriend are already entered. 47 hands are dealt and you have a chip count after hand 35. You get $2000 in non negotiable chips.
My other question is does anyone have any good strategies on how to play a turny like this one? Thanks for any help you can give me, oh, by the way the turny is next month and starts 8-11-07. Thanks again for any help you can give me.

 

St. Ignace?

This sure sounds like the St. Ignace tournament on the second weekend of August. If that guess is correct, there's a couple of folks here who have played it before and could help you. Is it?

 

Ya, 99% sure it's St. Ignace. One correction - 42 hands are dealt not 47. A brief recap of this tournament can be found in the CALENDER listing for this event. Other discussions of the St. Ignace event can be found by doing a search - probably using the key word "St. Ignace".

Great for a weekend get away meaning the tourist attractions. I'm not nuts about the casino but I'll keep quiet on that subject. Monkeysystem and DanMayo may have something to say so maybe they'll throw in their 2 cents here. On the positive side, for the money it's probably the best deal in the Midwest but that's because the Midwest doesn't have much to offer tournament wise.

GOOD LUCK in your play. Let us know how it turned out.

 

This is the St. Ignac turny, so anyone out there that has played in it before any advice would be appreciatted. I was told by the turny director that they change the format from a 4 deck shoe game to a 2 deck pitch game and then go back to the 4 deck game next time they hold the turny. My question is are your cards delt face down and if you hit and bust do you have to throw your cards in right then or wait and show that you busted after everyone plays out their hand?

 

Toolman is right, both Monkeysystem and DanMayo have been there before.
I'll see if I can contact them to post their experiences here.

 

If it's a 2 deck deck game then the normal "pitch" rules apply. Both of the player's cards will be dealt face down. If you bust then you must throw your cards in immediately. If you don't, you will be reprimanded and continued violation could result in disqualification. Also, if it's a "critical" hand and you don't throw in a busted hand you may be disqualified immediately.

If it's a 4 deck game then it will be dealt out of a shoe and both of the player's cards will be dealt face up.

One word of advice. The written rules are not necessarily the way the tournament will be played, so watch out. Also, how you advance can be confusing so make sure you get everything straight in your mind. The fact that they don't necessarily go by the written rules is one of the reasons I don't care to go there - unless of course I'm on withdrawal.

 

Excuse me, but holy crap! Written rules are merely a guideline, and can't see the cards?
I've heard nothing but good things about the St. Ignace events until now.
Those are enough to make me consider saving the gas for the +/- five hour drive up there!

 

LeftNut,

"Pitch" games are almost universally dealt with the first 2 cards face down (dealer still has 1 card showing). This is not unique to St. Ignace.

As for the rules, usually only Monkeysystem and DanMayo post about St Ignace and their comments are usually positive because they like the place and DanMayo usually does well there. That's OK to talk favorably about a place you like. I'm just giving the down side and others I have talked to privately agree with what I've said about the written rules. For example, I played there 2 years back where the written rules described an accumulation format game. I questioned the tournament director and he said "we're not going to play that way".

Now that being said, for a weekend getaway with great scenery, Mackinac Island, and various tourist shops you can't go wrong for the $200+ you pay for 3 nights at the hotel and the tournament.

 

Toolman -
Thanks! I knew that pitch was dealt facedown, just didn't know that this event was going to be pitch. That significantly changes strategy during play of the individual hands. For example, you've got no idea if the guy before you stood on 16 or 19 vs. 10. Knocks off some of the button position advantage. Adds some extra "luckbox" into the mix.

Thanks for the downside eye-openers. I agree that the Mackinac area can be awesome in the late summertime. My problem with that is internal - when I go to a competition, I tend to be quite tunnel-visioned about it. Comes from years traveling around to bowling tournaments with all of the attendant distractions that were available. You kept your focus or you stunk up da joint bigtime. The extent of my sightseeing will probably picking 2 or 3 slabs of that awesome fudge for friends at home.

 

LeftNut,

Just to clarify, I'm not saying this event will be pitch. I'm just saying if it is then that's how it will be handled. GOOD LUCK to you if you play.

 

St. Ignace

Hey tool,
No offense but I disagree with you on this tournament! It has always been the best tournament "value" not only in the midwest but everywhere.
I've played it on a pretty regular basis for 8 or 9 years and have never seen anything like you implied.
Also, as long as I'm ragging on you, I recall you slamming their video poker conditions in a post a year ago or so and you were wrong on that front, also. They have always had a bank of full pay 9-6 machines that video poker junkies will tell you are a good value when you consider cash back, comps, etc.
Billy C

 

Never played this tournament but I can vouch for the beauty of this area. Spectacular.

 

Billy C,

WOW!!! Looks like a St. Ignace lover to me. But your love for the place is making you walk around with blinders because you are not looking at the whole picture - only that portion that pleases you. I too find a lot of desirable points about St. Ignace and I have wrote about them on this forum in the past. However, most every tournament also has its bad points and I was merely point out that there are downsides to St. Ignace that most choose to ignore. Let me respond to your comments.

1) I never said it was not a good value. But when you say it's the best value "everywhere", well, that's a pretty tall statement.

2) I'm not "implying" that they don't follow their written rules, I'm saying they "don't" follow the written rules - no implication, it's a fact. If you have never encountered any discrepancy in the years that you have been going there then you are not paying attention or not reading the rules.

3) Video Poker. When I was there 2 years ago there was virtually nobody playing because the payout schedules were so bad. Not only could I not find a JorB machine paying 9/6, I couldn't even find a machine paying 8/5. Now that changed last year, I did find some better paying machines but my best recollection is that I didn't see any payouts of 9/6. I could be wrong on last year's observation but that's my recollection.

Now let me restate what I said before. If anyone likes a tournament at any given location then they should go back and enjoy themselves. However, don't close you eyes to the downside as negatives exist in virtually all tournaments. If one can overlook those downsides then by all means go and enjoy - but don't deny they exist.

PS: I will not have time to respond to this thread in the immediate future. I'm on my way to a tournament paying $50,000 for first. My entry fee is $250 with 3 hotel nights. Talk about value!!!

 

According to the database in vpFREE, that lone row of dollar 9/6 Jacks-or-Better was the only thing that would be considered even remotely playable by a knowledgeable video poker enthusiast.
If I go to St. Ignace, I'll be taking a book or two with me.

 

St. Ignace

toolman1 and LeftNut,
1st "tool"- You are the one with blinders on! In the 8 or 9 years I've been going to St. Ignace , they have always had the bank of 9-6 VP machines. Another indication of your failing eyesight is that you call the tournament director a "he" and anybody that can see at all knows that Peggy B. is not a "he". She has been the tournament director at every one I've attended in the last 8 or 9 years (I've only missed a few).
Also, you might want to rethink your comparison of tournament "values". St. Ignace gives you $45 cash back (no gimmicks) plus gold token deal 3 days in a row, several food credits and 3 night stay in new attached hotel-- all with NO rated play requirement!
Now figure out the "net" cost to play at St. Ignace ($50-$100?) and tell me who and where offers a better tournament value.
Lastly, could you be specific about your accusation that they don't follow the written rules?

LeftNut,
You indicate that you will read books rather than giving a casino that offers a good tournament side action on 9-6 VP machines with cash back on players card and other comps.
This is what causes the end of tournament offerings. You are an "elite member of Blackjack Tournaments.com?
I don't want to be one!

Billy C

 

First of all, I had nothing to do with the "elite" thing. Don't know what it means.
I've seen other designations here and don't know what those mean, either.

9/6 JoB is only 99.54% return with perfect strategy play. Using rounded numbers, at the dollar level ($5 per hand) and at a slow cruising speed of 800 hands per hour, that's $4,000/hr x 1/2% loss rate = negative $20 per hour EV. If one does not hit the Royal, that rate increases to $160/hr. If one does hit the Royal, the State of Michigan will carve out about $150 for taxes with no possibility of fading it with losses, further reducing the EV of the game and causing other negative tax effects due to the rise in gross income, depending on the player's personal situation. Whatever their comp rate is, it's of no concern to me, and the cashback rate would have to approach a full 1% to get me interested.

I didn't know it was a requirement to play poor games with bad odds in order to be a TBJ supporter.
I apologize because, as you can see, I am a newbie at things like casinos, EV, odds, analyzation, etc.

 

St. Ignace

LeftNut,
First, you are wrong about the tax ramifications unless things have changed in the last year or so. In the 8 or 9 years I've pounded those 9-6 machines I have had 3 Royals not because of good luck but as a result of lots of hours of correct play.
On all three occasions I was given 4k in cash. You certainly don't expect me to believe they forgot to keep the MI cut all three times?
Next point-I hope you weren't trying to impress anyone with the stats you posted, your supposed EV knowledge, analyzation skills, etc. The stats are easily accessible to anybody that can click a mouse and the other things are questionable.
No. 3-You shouldn't call it a poor game without having facts to back up what you say. Truth is it's a plus EV game when you factor in cash back points, comps, etc.
It appears that you aren,t an advantage VP player anyway if you are playing 800 plus hands per hour. Unless you are very exceptional, you are making costly playing mistakes at that rate, which more than negate a plus EV in any VP game!
Lastly, it looks like you're a MI resident and if you are it amazes me that you won't play a +EV game at a casino that offers a good tornament
Don't complain when they stop having tournaments in your backyard!
Billy C

 

The State of Michigan does not deduct the tax for its own citizens directly out of the jackpot. It comes back and bites you on the backside at filing time. If you did hit three $4K royals and didn't have to pay tax on them - congratulations. You got away with it.

I'm not about to get into a pissing battle with you over my knowledge of VP strategy. I simply don't need to. There are two misconceptions in your last message, however. 800 HPH is not a fast rate. 1,200 is. A well-practiced VP aficionado can play a simple game like JoB at 800 per hour quite easily. And, as I mentioned, I don't care about the comps at that place because it's too far away from my home to make me a regular visitor. So, with a perfect return of 99.54% and a cashback rate of .33%, it falls short and I fail to see how playing that game makes anyone an advantage player.

Now, can we get back to discussing the BJ tournament?