21+3 Tournaments

I've never played in a 21+3 tournament before, but they are offered at the Ameristar each week. Does anyone have any insight, opinion or strategy design for a tournament like this? Do you have to put down a bet every hand for the "+3", as well as your regular blackjack bet? Just wondering. Thanks.

 

21 + 3

I play in that Ameristar tournament on most Wed. I only play the +3 when I need to catch up. The +3 adds a hugh luck factor. Also, the tournament never fills up. Winner may only get $500.

Since you are from the St. Louis area you should also play in the Mon. night regular BJ tournament. It fills up every week winner gets $1176(no tax withheld). A lot us from this web site play there every Mon.
If you play, look me up. Ask dearlers who Tom & Jan are.

See you later.

Tom(tgun)

 

I will do that. I planned on playing this next Monday. My name is Ryan for reference. Thanks much. Since the tourney fills up, what time do you suggest I get there prior to the tourney beginning? Thanks again

 

Taxes?

Does this mean they don't issue a W2G?
or
Do they issue a W2G but not withhold any taxes?

From my actual experiences, I was told the rules for issuing a W2G are:
For slot machines: Prizes of at least $1,200 on any machine win
For tournaments: Prizes totaling at least $600 FOR A CALENDAR YEAR

 

They will ask you to fill out a W9, however you do not have to claim any winnings below $10,000 for the year. Each Casino keeps track of your winnings and you can always request your winnings record from the casino for tax purposes.

 

21 + 3 at Ameristar(St Charles, Mo)

Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow night Ryan.

Ameristar does not issue anything, withhold anything, or require winners to sign anything. They pay out the $1176 to winner in cash.

Additionally they hold a $100 buy-in BJ Tournament nearly every month on Sunday afternoon. Winner gets $3930 in cash. Nothing to sign, no w2g and nothing withheld. They believe that since the prize money comes only from the participates they have no responsibility to report this activity to the government. I believe that they have State approval for this idea.

tgun(tom)
p.s. my wife(swede21) won the $3930 in December.

 

See you there TGun!! And good luck

 

W2G or 1099?

Toolman, for the $600 amount was it a W2G or 1099 tax form?

I have seen a few places issue 1099 (misc. income) for $600 or above before.

Also everybody keep talking about 21+3 tournament and then nothing.

I take that as a bad sign about the results.

 

W2g

Well TX, I didn't want to get back into this tax stuff, but since you asked. I'm working on my tax return now (on and off - mostly off) and I have a W2G for just over $900 from a casino where I placed in the money on one of their BJ tournaments.

From what I've seen on this thread (and other threads) there seems to be a lot of confusion and opinions about the taxing of gambling winning. I am no tax expert so my best advice, before one makes a disastrous decision, is seek competent tax help. To review some of the things mentioned on this thread, I am 99% confident of the following:

1) By IRS rulings, slot payments of $1,200 and over must be reported to the IRS.

2) tgun made a posting about Ameristar:

"Winner gets $3930 in cash. Nothing to sign, no W2G and nothing withheld. They believe that since the prize money comes only from the participates they have no responsibility to report this activity to the government. I believe that they have State approval for this idea."​

First of all, the state is not the determining factor, it's a federal thing. If they are paying $3930 with no IRS forms they are courting disaster. The winners are also courting disaster also since they are not declaring it on their 1040 - just because a W2G or 1099 is not issued does not relieve one of paying tax on the winnings.

Second:

"prize money comes only from the participates and they have no responsibility to report this activity to the government".​

This is so wrong it's not even funny. Using that theory, winning at the WSOP, other high stakes poker tournaments and state lotteries to name a few, would not have to report the winnings.
In summary, Ameristar is all wrong. I wish they were right, but they are wrong.

3)Keabler10 made a posting:

"They will ask you to fill out a W9, however you do not have to claim any winnings below $10,000 for the year."​

Wrong. Any gambling winning are taxable. In practice, most people only report their winnings if they are issued a W2G or 1099. But winnings are taxable irregardless of the amount.
I think Keabler is confusing "homeland security" with "tax laws" when he referenced the $10,000 amount. Federal law requires that institutions report any cash transactions $10,000 and over. This in not reported to the IRS as income, it is reported to the Federal Government to help prevent funding of terrorism.

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that all gambling winnings are taxable, period - yes, even winnings from home poker games. Whether the casinos know their responsibly in reporting such transactions seems to be in question. The sad part is that well meaning members of this site are being mislead by what the casinos are telling them. The casinos are NOT tax experts. I'll repeat that: CASINOS ARE NOT TAX EXPERTS. Seek competent tax advice. What everyone is getting (as far as tax advice) on this site is speculation and that speculation can end you up on the wrong side of the IRS - and that is one place you don't want to be. Good luck to all but don't push your luck with the IRS.

 

Personally it sounds like....

A big mess, but I would love to have hundreds of thousands of win's to have to figure out every year...LOL

 

For anyone who is interested in IRS pubs (i.e., gluttons for punishment)

According to IRS publications, for casino table games the winnings are not reportable unless they are $600 or more and exceed 300 times the amount wagered.

Every casino tournament I have played in Las Vegas has followed this rule and paid prize money either in cash (Boulder Station) or casino chips (everyone else) with no personal data taken so long as the 300 x requirement obtained.

A previous post I made on this subject: Irs sez has a link to the IRS web site which covers casinos in general.

As to Indian Gaming I have since found this IRS publication" Indian Gaming Tax Law (see pages 18-25)...but it didn't persuade the people at Turning Stone. I still got a 1099 for last year.

ptaylorcpa, I think you should jump all over the IRS and in your professional capacity demand that they clarify this matter once and for all.

--jr

 

Bottom Line

After all is said and done, the Bottom Line is:
If you get a W2G or 1099 from a casino, put it on your tax return. You don't want to be on the IRS' "list".

 

Include those W2Gs and 1099s

Of course!

Toolman, I hope you aren’t inferring that I would advocate taxpayers do otherwise.

My post was prompted by your statements, “From what I've seen on this thread (and other threads) there seems to be a lot of confusion and opinions about the taxing of gambling winnings” and “Whether the casinos know their responsibly in reporting such transactions seems to be in question.”

I cite the IRS pubs so that readers can draw their own conclusions. My lament at receiving my own 1099, and the admonition to ptaylorcpa were merely attempts to inject some levity into a dreary subject—as indicated by the smileys.

--jr

 

We are on the same page

No, no such inference was intended. We are both on the same page on this issue, just approaching it from different angles. It would be good if the casinos applied the tax code and IRS rulings uniformly. Maybe sometime in the future - but don't hold your breath.

Now I have to get back to my tax return.

 

Ameristar

Dear Toolman,

The State of Missouri has to approve everything that every casino in Missouri does. The State collects taxes on winnings above $1200, except for the monthly tournament I mentioned. It's a fact. Draw any conclusion that you want. But I didn't advise anyone not to report their winnings.

I have always been aware that it is everyone's responsibility to report all income to the IRS. As well as reporting all loses.

Relax! It will be ok. I get crappy at tax-time every year also.

tgun

 

Taxes on winnings

The state of Mississippi also approves everything the casinos in Mississippi do. However I won 2 tournaments in Mississippi last year. In one of them, I received 10 $5,000.00 chips and was told I did not have to pay taxes unless I cashed more than $10,000 in a 24 hr period. These were actual chips and not promotional chips. As of yet I have not received a 1099 or W2G for these winnings, not even the state takeout which is supposed to be 3% of any winnings over $1200.00. At another casino in Mississippi I got a check for $100,000, and had to immediately give back $3000 for the state. I also received a W2G for the entire $100,000. So the same state and two different sets of rules given by the same governing body. I personally feel the first casino was wrong and included my $50,000 as income for Federal taxes, but cannot list it on the state return because it is supposed to be automatically collected by the casino and not reported on the tax return.

 

Good problem

Deltaduke if given the chance I am sure you (as would most of us) would want to have the same problems every year....LOL

 

Mississippi winners get a break

Very interesting…so I checked the Mississippi State Tax Commission’s web site and found Notice to Casino Patrons There are two of them, neither dated but the second appears to supercede the first. Mississippi is satisfied to take a flat 3% of all gambling winnings with no (state) reporting or filing requirements of the winner, residents and non-residents alike.

However there is a condition (there’s always a loophole to keep the lawyers busy :eyepatch: ): …on gaming winnings that are required to be reported to the Internal Revenue Service… in the very first sentence.

So, if the entry fee for the first casino’s tournament was more than $166.67, were they right or wrong? :violin:

 

Day late and dollar short

Sorry Jackaroo, I don't have much clout with the IRS. I am like everyone else, just trying to stay under their radar.



I would second advice given previously, if you do get a W2G or a 1099, you better report it. It is an automatic cross check in the computers of the IRS now to look for a match between what was reported to them and what you show on your return. At the very least you will receive a letter asking you to explain the apparent mistake with a little hint that if you can't explain it that you owe this amount now which includes penalties and interest, and if it isn't paid by a certain date they will follow up.

Don't forget, gambling losses are deductable as an itemized deduction up to the amount of winnings, so go pick up all those keno slips that are thrown away and save them for that big win....

Whoops, did I say that?

:joker: