I've been searching through the archives for definition of a surrender trap, but haven't really found one. Could someone please explain exactly what is a surrender trap, and how to use it? I'll be playing in a tournament next month, and I think it's something I should know. Thanks !
cake The "Classic" surrender trap is a move made by BR1 whereby they "trick" BR2 into betting an amount that cannot beat the remaining BR held by BR1 if BR1 surrenders their bet, even if BR2 wins his hand. Usually this involves BR1 slightly overbetting the difference between BR1 and BR2 thus "offering" the "Low" to BR2. If they fall for it and take the low BR1 can't lose if they surrender. If they don't fall for it you may be in trouble. E.g. Bet range 500-5 BR1 - 1000 BR2 - 800 BR1 bets 250 BR2 bets 30 (takes the low) BR1 Surrenders leaving 875 BR2 can only make 830 even if they win - They've been trapped!!! However if BR2 bets 40-50 they can double to beat the surrender so it wouldn't be a complete lock. Also if BR2 bets 500 they will have the high over BR1. So if you're not in the lead and someone with a greater BR1 than you slightly overbets, watch out! Likewise be careful if you try it yourself. Cheers Reachy
Article If you search around the forum, the topic has been covered more than once. As it happens, I was doing exactly that a few days ago. I bookmarked the following for some bedtime reading ... www.beyondcounting.com/pdfs/surr_trap.pdf
non-classical I've been thinking about other moves/bets that aren't strictly speaking surrender traps but do limit an opponents options and I wondered whether they could be sub-classified as half surrender traps or reverse surrender traps, etc. For starters betting 2X your lead minus a chip is a ST of sorts. Or you could bet (as BR1) 2X your lead plus BR2s bet minus a chip to allow surrender to the low. Or 2X your lead plus 1/2 BR2s bet minus a chip to prevent surrender by BR2 (reverse surrender trap?). Or as BR2, if BR1 bets greater than their lead you can then bet 2X the difference between BR1s Low and your current BR to allow you to get a larger bet out and surrender if needs be. If they overbet significantly you may be able to cover their surrender position and make it even harder for them. Just some idle thoughts really.... Cheers Reachy
Reachy, The reason for the influx of other “surrender-like traps” (SLT) is, in my opinion, due to the difference in max bet amounts along with a secret bet and/or power chip. Take the most recent Teaser by Joep for example. Because of the higher max bet and chip totals the tradition bet that BR1 would make, lead minus a chip, seems rather outdated (at least to me) because I’ve done that and had the lead taken from me time and time again. Another thing is that since the introduction of EBJ I have personally observed less of a more traditional Wong-style betting approach when playing the online SNG’s. The result of that is a higher chip total (BR) for players. Since more players are basing their best on other player’s bets, the SLT options are more prevalent – or maybe I just think too much and overly complicate the matter! :joker: What I would like to see added would be a DD rescue. For example if you DD on any two cards (including splits) after you see the DD card you are given the option of standing with the hand (traditional DD) or you can immediately surrender you bet right there and then. The only pitfall is that you have to have the DD cards up and not down. So while you gain the advantage of having another tool you lose the ability to mask you DD. This is a feature of Spanish 21 that I thoroughly enjoy and think it would be a great addition to TBJ – any thoughts or ideas.
Never A Real Trap There are many different formulas to setting up the surrender trap,the initial one that was used when surrender first was offered in tournaments was double your lead less a chip so if you had a 200 lead you could bet 395 hoping that your opponent "Took The Bait". But here is where this bet becomes a problem. So if your BR was 900 and your opponent was 700 the bets would look like this Br 1 bets 395 and holds back 505 Br 2 would now hold back 510 and bet 190 If Br 1 then surrenders he will lose 197.50 1/2 of 395 leaving his total chip count at 702.50 This will beat Br2 by 2.50 if Br 2 pushes his hand, or loses, but is this a true surrender trap and the answer is no. Here is why if its a face down game BR 2 might be holding a Blackjack and you just surrendered into a loss. If its a face up game and Br 2 see you surrender, all they have to do is win their hand and you just surrendered into a loss.Br 2 now can pass up on a forced DD and just play their hand in normal conditions which is still not a favorable position but a lot better than having to do a "Curts Revenge" forced DD So the double your lead less a chip is a form of a surrender trap but not one that 100% assures you of a "LOCK" Br 2 will have 890 if they win their hand and beat you and you false surrender trap In this months BJ Insider I wrote an article on a heads up match between Anthony Curtis and Blair Rodman and in that article I show a different formula that will work more efficiently with a specific lead.Keep in mind the trap i refer to will work with this lead and betting limits.If Br 2 happens to get a pair and splits to 4 hands with a DD, then there is nothing you can do to stop that from happening. The other way the surrender trap can backfire on you is if the dealer has a 10 up and flips over a "Hidden" blackjack this will happen once every 42 hands. So there really is no "FOOL PROOF" surrender but some are way better than others. Joep
S. Yama's treatment of this subject is a sobering one. I wouldn't try it with most members of this forum. Still, there are other times when, based upon my assessment of the skills of the player....??
The days of using the true surrender trap against most players at Bet21 or similar online venues is over. I haven't seen it work in a long time. In land-based casinos where surrender is offered, it would still be appropriate depending on the opponent. Now, the other bets that are similar to the surrender trap are often the best play available. Betting to take the high and still keep the surrender low is a strong strategy, and should be part of your thinking process all the time.
Surrender Trap I've made the same observation about the true trap. I've used it successfully only once in many tries. Still, if you would've just bet your lead minus a chip anyway, why not try it? It's free because you're rooting for the dealer to beat or push your opponent whether you surrender any hand or just take the low. Betting double the lead minus a chip, even when your lead is less than 1/3 the max bet, is an even more powerful bet when made in secret than in the open. If your opponent takes the high on you it's no different than if you bet your lead minus a chip. Surrender everything unless a double down beats your opponent's single bet and your chance of winning that is better than your opponent's chance of losing or pushing. If your lead is greater than 1/3 the max bet then double the lead minus a chip or two gets you the high-low correlation unless your opponent makes a bet smaller than your lead. If your lead is greater than 2/5 of the max bet you get the additional benefit of being able to cover the double down. If you don't get the high-low correlation because your opponent made a small bet you surrender if your chance of losing your bet is greater than your opponent's chance of winning the double down. If your opponent is reckless/aggressive, just lead off with the max. If you're BR2 and your opponent makes such a bet in the open you should just bet the max because you're less likely to find yourself in a forced double down situation caused by your opponent surrendering.
sucker The only time I saw a successful surrender trap was when I walked into it..... I wore sackcloth and beat myself daily for a week afterwards. Cheers Reachy
