Im starting to wonder if the true player base of our game is 30 out here in the west. We had poor participation in Laughlin with the same 30 (les) or so players participating. UBT has had about the same. If you separate the invites you get very few. The state of our game is weak. Mini tournaments get all the play.
Player Base WELL I AM SORRY TO HEAR THAT THE TURNOUT FOR THE TOURNYS WAS SHORT OF PLAYERS I AM SURE THAT PLAYERS IN WEST NEVADA,CAL,WASHINGTON AND SO ON ARE MANY TO PLAY TOURNAMENTS I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY A LITTLE TURNOUT WAS THERE A GOOD TURNOUT AT RICKS TOURNYS INCLUDING INVITES -I HOPE THERE WAS A LEAST 60 PLAYERS TBJPA
No invites at River Palms I saw. Players in mid 20s which made buy ins plus re buys chase a low prize pool. I see a pattern in BJT out here for non invite games, expensive games gather about 30 players. Sad, but true. BTW, Laughlin Pioneer game at $200+$20 brings about 30 during season with little snow birds and up to 60+ during snow bird season. The Aquarius had , Im guessing, about 200 for an invite/walk up event last month. Buy in was 49$ for a 15 grand first place.
So what was the final tally of players there? I'm not sure about the "state of our game" statement but player participation is definately an issue at some places. With invite tourney's in the past so many players have been spoiled such that unless they get "comp'd" they just don't play.
FGK, we posted at same time so Im sure you have seen we had only in mid 20s at River Palms. IMO the buy in cost was too high and should have had two $150 games not two $300s. I spoke with at least 20 BJT players of recent about this RP event, some had seen it on Laughlin Entertainer calendar. They said it was too expensive. IT seems these games are churning same players with little or no new blood.
How do you get new blood when you don't advertise the events anywhere but here, the LVA site, and the Laughlin Entertainer? There was no advertising in newspapers, radio, TV, billboard or gaming publications.
$ I think you're right Barney. Here in Sr. Louis we get over 100 players every Mon. night with a $30 buy-in. But only get about 30 for the Sun event with a $100 buy-in. It's all about the money. tgun
pokernut Why would you pay for advertising when you have a very low participation rate to start? If you are going to advertise on a LA TV station even off channels its going to cost you thousands for the production and TV time. You could put it in a big poker mag but how much would that cost? All IN is pretty much part of UBT and mostly read by people here on BJT.com. BJT.com is the premier BJT web page it should be a key to alerting BJT players. In Laughlin there is a "static" player base of about 50 and they knew about the event but ZERO came because its too expensive. I read a while back the Imperial Palace was canceled because of low sign ups and some said it had no advertising. Hog wash, the IP event is well known and zilch. Fact is the player base is after small events that offer little risk with guarantee pots. The only way to get good participation is to run a huge guarantee and moderate buy in. We have a weak player base. This is in obvious contrast to poker which has it easy.
There is always opportunities for cheap advertising as an example: here in Mississippi there are gaming publications called Mid South Gaming, Jackpot and a billboard company, The owners or managers are comped into events for free advertisng.
And your point is? This stems back to years of free lunches - those days are long gone. Look at the last 2 UBT events: The Palms - 2700 with no guarentee The Venetian - 1500 with 100,000 guarentee The Palms 63 players The Venetian 113 players Was it the reduction in buy in or the guarentee? I say BOTH In Tunica the horseshoe had a 1500 buy in for 250,000 and had over 200 players The recently hosted a 125,000 for 500 and had 200+ players So you're right in that the "player pool" is small - especially compared to poker and it needs new blood to grow. I was planning to be in Laughlin for the 10K & TBJPA events. However when the 10K event was cancelled I had to weigh the benefits of outlaying $500+ for those events. I was still willing to do so until last minute personal things cropped. What happened to the "comp'd" players that the RP was supposed to put into the event?
player pool remember that Laughlin is a very small town - about 8,000 population - and even including Bullhead City, Needles and such -only 90,000 people - and - their player base is old, slow, and middle-class - without substantial local advertising - and ways to let their players know about the tournaments - how is anyone - whether local or tourist - even going to know that the tournament is happening - and if they do find out about it - these are low/mid rollers - unlikely to play in a $300 tourney - The local market for this tourney would be Vegas players coming down for the day - the tourist market - would be small - I want to see Rick running his tourneys in a larger market - where players are used to $100 buy-ins - and with the local casino pushing it - don't think Seattle is it - lots of small tourneys - but $300 tourneys? think Phoenix or Tucson would be better markets - millions of people - and - they are used to $100 entry fees - might actually get 50 locals - if the tournament was marketed right - or one of the southern cal casinos - Viejas - drew 250 for a $100 tourney -
Promo Viejas ran a promo for suited Club BJs to get 25$ off entry fee for the month of June. I think this is a good promo for the casino to run. Not that many Club suits come out but the players are aware of the chance which is good advertisement. I think these little things can help bring good participation.
RKuczek; read your post with great interest. i do agree with most of what you have stated. disagree, with the implication that seattle is a small market, as per yuma. yes, we have tons of minis to play every week, as i do. i believe that with good promotion, disclosure about the potential size of prize pools, rules that are enforced, etc., seattle could be a attractive venue for larger tournaments. we do play many more bj tourneys than the fine people of phoenix and yuma. would a $300.00 buy-in scare the seattle locals away? i guess time will tell. we do have a high roller nite at the iron horse once a month, (over the 16 tourneys they put on). the entry fee is doubled. it usually brings in 30+ more players than the regular tournament. so, on a smaller scale, we are willing to pay more for a larger prize pool. in summary, i believe promotion, not location (seattle) is the key. hope you can get tourneys in your area. always willing to travel to a good ev tournament.
"the entry fee is doubled. it usually brings in 30+ more players than the regular tournament. so, on a smaller scale, we are willing to pay more for a larger prize pool." What is the entry fee?
pokernut: as i stated, the "high roller" nite entry fee at the iron horse is on a smaller scale than the 150-300 buy-in. we pay a 50.00 buy-in, and if needed, a 50.00 rebuy, for a first place of 2500.00. i was using this as an example on what, we locals, would consider in paying, for a larger buy-in tourney. all i know is what i hear from my peers nightly. the sept. tourney has not been promoted as of this time, except for a little of word of mouth. again, pokernut, we play up 13 tournamnets per week. we pay a lot in buy-ins, ranging from 25-50 per nite.
Here in Tunica we get 2 BJ mini's, 1 3-card poker, 2 craps, several slot and about 20 poker tourneys weekly. Unless Tex changes his routine you won't see any advertising of the Seattle event except on free internet sites. If you don't advertise (promote) how can expect people find out about tournaments, concerts, movies, races, etc.?
pokernut: you do bring up a valid point. and, i do agree with your statement. i do not know what tex's budget is. but i know that is hard to start up a business venture without backing capital. he might have it, or he might not. that is none of my concern. i do know that the iron horse (and they are just a two casino business, without slots), plans on advertising in the western gambler. this is a 3 state monthly magazine, available free in all northwest casinos. i believe there are 108 casinos in the state of wa. so, it should get some print. just can hope, for the betterment of bjt, and its' players, tournaments such as what rampart, in vegas is doing with ubt, and what could be a benefit in the seattle area with the upcoming tbjpa tourney.
Blackjack Players in The West Well, this is an excellent topic geographically wise. I must say that whenever I post I stir up someone or most people just don't agree with me. I will continue to post at the stake of not hurting anyone. This is soley my opinion and not quoting others on this topic. Now, being in Pasadena,CA is very interesting. In my opinion, I go to Laughlin more than Las Vegas. Get this. If you mapquest or yahoomaps the total distance from Pasadena,CA to Laughlin versus Vegas, then Laughlin is a bit further. My wife and I of eight years as of yesterday(Godly marriage) do turnound trips with my father-in-law and mother-in-law about four to five times a year. That being said, we sometimes get in the car and we talk about how expensive it is to just get to these places. The timing at this juncture is not good anyway due to the entire sub-prime mess and I know a couple of true blackjack players that have just lost their homes. So, you tell me during a time as this, is entering blackjack tournaments right now the greatest priority. Just take the poll that Ken took about why people didn't come to Laughlin. Hell, one of the biggest vote getters was the expense. Really you all, you're looking at spending about $300.00 or more just for the two of you. That's if you have a spouse. Then, what about the activities? I like Laughlin because it is condensed and only about ten or eleven Casinos. Harrah's being my favorite. In Las Vegas it's too much of a hustle and bustle for my wife and I. In addition, man we have to set aside money just to plan for these trips. I'm going into many of your personal profiles and looking at where many of you reside. Many are really not on the West Coast from the one's that I saw. Let me tell you that it is one of the most hardest lifestyles here in Southern California. I think BarneyStone can atest to that. The same home that is $250,000 in Georgia is $500,000.00 to $600,000.00. It's just hard to keep a mortgage here. Therefore, when you ask about the Westide of the United States, it gets hell-of-a expensive. You guys are so great and Godly, but my point to this is that again I will say that when I go to a Pechanga, Borona, San Manuel, Viejas, I purposely ask gamblers when was the last time you've done a tournament? They say what tournaments? I haven't heard about a tournament. Some people gestured earlier on this topic about the advertisement. I agree with both points. There has to be other avenues other than here, Casinoplayer.com, Ken's site, and a few others that should be a way to get the word out on about tournaments. Many people are just complacent and lazy. They don't want to drive or fly across country for a tournament. I haven't heard anything really big on the West Coast but Borona and they tried to bump down the entry fee on that tournament and people were still complaining about it. I sure was. I guess I am so frustrated just writing about this and this site itself. It makes me only want to come on here just for the tournament news. Well, God bless you all and have a blessed day. Thank you for opening up the lines of communication.
