Check out my blog over on my site for all the gruesome details of my recent disqualification from a big blackjack tourney in the Bahamas... They should give Atlantis an award for being this shady!! Feel free to leave all the uncensored comments you'd like over there, before returning back here for more civilized discourse... -hd.
They suck big time, but,,,,, Mr Stan, you cannot have it both ways. You pass yourself off as a great BJ Tournament expert and you have gained a lot of visibility on TV (which you obviously relish). I am sure that you are not naive enough to believe that casinos will extend the welcome mat to you and allow you to compete with their premium players. My guess is that you will be given the "bum's rush", same as all the other well known advantage players. It's not right, but that's the way it is! In today's real casino world you cannot have it both ways
This was a tournament that THEY invited him to. I could understand if they didn't want him playing at the floor tables, but a tournament is a different ball game.
Absolutely. That was why i was so incensed -- been backed off from table game play @ plenty of casinos, but a tournament is different -- especially when responding to an invitation from the casino itself to be there! That one just takes the cake. I swear i could taste that money -- only 5 people stood between me & that final table (and hte $150,000) when they yanked me out. Grrrrrr.... -hd.
You are not the first person to have this happen to them and you know it. Very often Marketing is left out when someone is put in Griffin, flat betted or 86'd. You were also lucky they did not kick you out of your room and in the old days down there you could have been swimming with the sharks. A complaint about Gaming, even Gaming Commisions here in the states are just around to protect the states interest and see the state does not get cheated out of their money. They sure don't protect the customers interest. I have gotten invites from Marketing after being 86'd, always wanted to test the 86 using that invite but haven't tried.
Ok I want a clarification on this because this is the second time I've seen this. I "think" I know what the Griffin is but since I'm just a nobody can you please explain to use newbies around here what that is? These are the only Griffins I got on Google: :joker: I'm trying to be serious here - this is a legit question!
This is an old post, but it will give you some answers to what Griffin is......... Griffin files for Chapter 11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Griffin book producer files for Chapter 11, citing suit By Liz Benston LAS VEGAS SUN The company that produces the Griffin book claims it's broke. Griffin Investigations Inc., which distributes lists of suspected cheaters and card counters to casinos, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing a defamation lawsuit filed against the company by gamblers who said they were improperly detained at the Caesars Palace and Imperial Palace casinos, called cheaters and arrested. Griffin, a security company widely used by Las Vegas casinos that sells lists of "undesirables," cited as its largest creditor the company's attorneys in the case, who are owed $106,868.15 in legal fees. The company's second-largest creditors are the gamblers who sued Griffin. Gamblers Michael Russo and James Grosjean are owed a court judgment of $105,000, according to Griffin's bankruptcy filing. Griffin's co-owners, Beverly and Robert Griffin, are each owed $74,000 and $50,000, respectively, in loans. The company lists assets of $100,000 to $500,000. Its 20 largest unsecured claims total $368,482. Griffin officials could not be reached by press time, and the company's Reno attorney could not be reached for comment. In July, a $45,659 judgment against Griffin was entered in Clark County District Court in favor of the two gamblers. Russo was awarded $25,000 in damages and $15,000 in punitive damages and Grosjean was awarded $25,000 in damages and $10,000 in punitive damages. Griffin distributes a list of suspected cheats and skilled gamblers, often called advantage players, called the "Griffin book" and also has an online service. The company has many enemies among advantage players, who say they have been falsely labeled as cheaters in the Griffin book. Card counters, unlike cheaters, aren't breaking any laws but casinos don't want their play. State gaming regulators have often said that card counting is absolutely legal but that casinos can refuse to allow card counters to play on their tables. In the lawsuit, Russo and Grosjean claim that Griffin published fabricated information that Russo was part of a team of blackjack cheaters and that Grosjean was associated with a person who bent cards. Filed in November 2001, the suit said Caesars Palace used information in the Griffin book to detain and arrest the gamblers after a gambling session in 2000. Caesars claims the two were bending cards. Several months after the Caesars incident, Grosjean entered Imperial Palace and was detained by casino security. The Imperial Palace claimed Nevada regulators were on the lookout for Grosjean. The case was later divided into two separate cases. The case involving Imperial Palace resulted in an October judgment of almost $400,000 against the casino. In June, a jury awarded damages of $50,000 against Caesars Palace. Critics say the cases marked the first judgments against Griffin, which has risked lawsuits over the years for further blurring the line between cheaters and skilled players. "You're on such thin ice there. You're talking about people's associations and reputations," said Anthony Curtis, publisher of the Las Vegas Advisor newsletter and a skilled blackjack player who has been listed in the Griffin book. "I don't think they're malicious in any way. I think they're just doing their job. But they've hurt people with the mistakes they've made." In spite of the company's outsized reputation in the casino industry, Griffin was basically a small, mom and pop operation, Curtis said. "They probably couldn't make their fees keep pace with the new technology," he said. The suit and judgment has opened the door to other critics and potential lawsuits, which might make the Griffins reconsider their business, he added. "A precedent has been set. Maybe they will say, 'We've had enough,' " he said. Bob Nersesian, who represented Russo and Grosjean in court, said Griffin "cried poor at trial" and showed tax returns with three years of losses. MGM Mirage is among the many casino companies that use Griffin's services. "The Griffin system has been very effective in tracking individuals who are known slot cheaters, advantage players and other undesirables," company spokeswoman Yvette Monet said. "This is one of many tools that we use to protect our properties and the integrity of our games." The company, Nevada's largest casino operator, also uses an internal database it has created on cheats and card counters.
Again excuse the niavity of this question but since the article didn't have a date on it is the "Griffin List" still in circulation? Also was this the same man/company that busted the MIT team in the book, "Bringing Down the House?" Even if Griffin and his company are 86'd I imagine that there are plenty of other companies that have risen to take advantage of identifying advantage players. Am I right? PS Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the courts rule in AC that people who are advantage players can't be barred from those casinos?
Mr Stan, I am curious... Did you get invited directly by Atlantis or did you get in through an agent or independent host, say out of Miami?
They are still in business and yes Anderson caught MIT and many others, he was their best operative, not sure if he is still around.
Can't be barred in NJ fgk42: You remember correctly. The New Jersey Supreme Court, taking a different view than their Nevada counterparts, ruled some time ago that blackjack players could not be "barred" for being suspected advantage players. However, they remain free to utilize all of the familiar countermeasures such as lowering the table spread, frequent shuffling, cutting off more of the deck, etc.
MO casinos can't bar! I believe that Missouri has the same rule regarding counters as New Jersey. tgun
Some people mistakenly think Ken Ustons case ruled that BJ is a game of skill but the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled that no one can be trespassed if they are not causing a disturbance, where in Nevada a business can trespass anyone for almost any reason.
Any Reason At All I was recently 86th/banned in a Las Vegas Casino for having the worst hairdo that they have seen since Mike Castellano was last seen in their casino. So as you can see they can ban you for any reason they chose At least they said it wasn't worse than Mike's hair :laugh: Joep
Hiar is exactly the first thing that came to my mind ....they banned Dave because of his hair...no other reason.
