Bankroll Needed To Advance? - Ceasars Indiana - 6/26/05 I'm registered to play in the Ceasars Indiana "Shufflin' Into Summer Blackjack Tournament" on 6/26/05. There will be a maximum of 270 players in 5 preliminary sessions. According to my telephone conversation with the casino personal, the highest 6 or 7 players will advance to the final table (apparently no semi-final table). As usual, casino personal could only supply me with limited information and I'm not sure if the information they supplied is accurate - what else is new. If anyone has played in their tournaments under similar rules, I have 3 questions: 1) What is the starting bankroll? 2) What final bankroll size is usually needed to be one of the top 6 or 7? 3) Do they post the leading bankroll totals as the sessions progress? They asked which session I wanted to play so I naturally took the last session (they could not tell me if re-buys are available) so I hope the answer to question 3 is "yes". I would appreciate any answers to my 3 questions and/or any other information anyone my have. THANKS.
Bankroll BJTs Its my experience that you need to play early and often in these types of tournaments. This format seems to favor the unskilled local players. Go table max the first three times and get back in line. Even if you make the board you have to keep rebuying to to protect your position. I understand Ballys, Tunica just dropped their tournaments using this format in their early rounds. A strong turn out will just encourage them to continue this format. As Jerry Clower, the old fertilizer salesman from Mississippi used to say, "Don't go, just send your money".
Re-buys The first round will be played on every hour from 1:30 to 5:30. If you don't get a high enough score to advance early, the re-buys will be available, but with over two hundred playing the re-buys for 4:30 & 5:30 will fill up fast. You may want to arrive earlier to give yourself multiple chances.
Thanks for the advice instagator & BigFun37: I appreciate the advice and will add it to my arsenal. This trip is primarily intended as a weekend get away. If I win live BJ the night before the tournament I will use part of the winnings to finance more entries into the tournament. Otherwise, my single entry will have to do since I fully agree that luck will be a major factor in getting to the final table and I don't like to throw money away. I would like to boycott these tournaments with bad rules but most tournaments in the mid-west have bad rules and that would mean I would hardly ever play. Yesterday I played where going "all in" was permitted at any time - talk about luck rulling. This was the 4th month for this particular tournament and each month has 10% to 25% less players. The tournament supervisors are too stupid to realize the decreasing attendence is due to bad rules. They just write it off to lack of interest - hello, is anyone home? I asked the pit supervisor why their literature now says "2 preliminary rounds" - previously it was "3 preliminary rounds". His reply was "I wish someone would have told me". Hum, doesn't sound like the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about - we need people with more than pea brains to run these tournaments. In closing I just hope I can make the final table at Caesars where skill should count for something. PS: Never met "the old fertilizer salesman from Mississippi" - sounds like a wise person.
Several problems Any tournament is better then none at all. Remember the tournaments are just a hook to try and draw players into their casino to try and increase their regular table play. Most casinos marketing departments don't realize they are not running their tournaments at their fullest poetical and the others run them so that the playing field is base more on luck then any knowledge, this is to level the play between the regular table players and the tournaments players. I get madder at the casinos then anyone when it comes to rules and not allowing certain players to play in their events. It is not as much the casinos fault as it is the suck-ass players who go crying to the casino telling them that it is not fair having a so called "PRO" playing in the tournament against them. That is the main reason so many players are 86’Ed from certain casinos tournaments and then you have the casino personnel that just has a hard on against a certain player or players and doesn't allow them in. Give me a break; I would love to see someone bitching about having to play real "PROS" like Doyle Bronson, Phil Ivey, Gus Hanson, or Blair Rodman on the WPT. They would be laughed out of the casino; most players want to play against the best in poker while in blackjack the players whine about it. Funny thing is you have a better shot at winning in a blackjack tournament then you do in a poker tournament. Hell in poker you’re known as "DEAD MONEY".... LOL.
Think Outside Of The Box In April at the Imperial Palace Anthony Curtis and I were standing around on the casino floor shooting the breeze when a total stranger walked up to us and said I know you guys,she told Anthony that she watches him all the time when he appears as the Las Vegas gaming expert.She asked us if we were playing in this tournament and Anthony told her he was but had lost in a earlier round and I had not played yet.This is where the casino suits need to start seeing the whole picture and start thinking outside the box.Her reaction was that she could not wait to go home and tell everyone that she beat Anthony Curtis in a blackjack tournament. Need I remind you that she didnt even play at the same time as Anthony Curtis did nor the same table.You see the general public wants to play against the 'TOP PLAYERS" it's a no lose sitution for them if they get beat by the "PRO" thats ok that was suppose to happen and they can say do you know who I played against when I was in Las Vegas.If they happen to beat one of the "PRO'S" this will be a story that they will tell everyone.Free publicity like this for the casino is pricless yet they dont think outside of the box.Need I remind the narrow minded suits there is not one tournament held in Las Vegas that returns more that the players entry fees as prize money.There are many that take and make a profit running them and thats ok as long as its not more than 10% of the entry fees.We as players realize that any business should make a profit,but why turn away players that are revenue generators and bring the public in.You only need to look to the poker world to see the explosion.Casino are removing slot machines and Keno lounges to put in poker rooms to keep up to the poker demand.There is a lot more money to be won by the casino at the blackjack tables against these new players than any poker room could realize.The 'Pros" will respect the casino wishes and not play the live blackjack tables if they allow us to play in the tournament it was done for 3 years at the Hilton.They never had to tell one of us to stay off the tables we got the message loud and clear from day 1.If you respect us we will return the respect.If you job is to help your casino realize more of a profit than your first job should be to allow all to play your tournaments with the understanding that if you are asked not to play live money blackjack and do you will never be allowed to play in the tournament.Even convicted felons come up before the parole board once a year. In a side note: The women never did tell me where she knew me from I hope it wasn't when I had a blurr in front of my face
2nd that Nicely put Joe, the more "KNOWN" players in the blackjack events should draw in more players. Once the casino staff understands this hopefully the blackjack tournaments will start climbing back up to where they were when I first started playing them (400 - 600) players per event. With the current Gambling craze the casinos should be cashing in everyway possible. Give everyone a chance to get rich quick in tournament play other then poker. The players are out there they just need to market them properly and as Joe stated, people love to play against players they have seen on TV. As far as the whiners, they are going to bitch about anything and everything anyway (unless they win and then it is because they are great....LOL).
3rd that I am just an amature but I did qualify for the mdbjIII, played in the playoffs, and then played at the Stardust trying for the $100,000. Didn't get to any final table but had a great time rubbing elbows with the PROS. I advanced from tables where the pros were defeated and that is one great feeling. Sure they are going to defeat me most of the time, but when my time comes - HALLELUJAH!!! The average person will forever remember defeating a Wong or a Curtis, even if they did not win any money in the process. They will tell the story 10,000 times over to anyone that will listen. It becomes a highlight of one's life. AND the casino's name becomes permanently imbeaded in the brain.. I hate invitationals as much as the pros. They tell me I haven't played there before and therefore I can't play in the tournament. What kind of kind of idiot developed that logic? If they let me in the tournament, I would play live BJ there but now my attitude becomes "up yours with a meat hook". Operning the eyes of the casions is a huge, huge task - good luck and I back you all the way.
Placing the blame To be fair it really wasn't the casinos that caused the open events to go to invitational tournaments, it was the players who took advantage of the freebies and gave them no play. You know the ones, they bitch about everything all the time, they want free rooms, free food, free tournament, money added to the prize pool from the casino, and then don't give the casino any action. They are the ones that are killing the tournaments for the rest of us. I have been pushing to get the casinos to open up to all the paid players and charge a fee (besides the entry, just like in the poker events). I get sick and tried of hearing players talking about how the casino should put in money or give us free stuff. Why should they? I know if I ran a casino I would be fair to the players, but I would make damm sure I made money for the casino and I don't know one player out there that wouldn't do the same. Matter of fact all those tight wads that bitch now would be the first ones to change everything around to benifit themselves. I bet all their tables would be 6-5 payouts...LOL, It really isn't funny, they are killing the tournaments for the rest of us.
Textourplayer= It seems to me that most all of the BJ tourneys charge a fee like poker tourneys, but the BJ tourney fees are hidden since very few pay back 100% of the entry fees, the Stardust is one of the worst in keeping entry fee money. As long as the casinos don't pay back 100% they are charging for the things you call free. Plus many of the casinos are like the Hilton, they claim a room was included in the entry fee but it was really charged against your comp balance thus it was not "free". And BJ tourneys will advertise a $100,000 tourney but in very small print somewhere it will be based on a certain number of players (deceptive advertising). Also in many of the poker tourneys the casinos do guarantee the pot (not based on number of entries), plus in many tourneys the casinos do add to the pot, even here in Tunica there are 5 guaranteed poker tourneys and 4 with $ added to the pot each week. BJ tourney directors could take lessons from the poker room managers.
It's called business Pokernut, yes most casinos (if not all of them take a fee from the entries). What is wrong with that? It is call business. All I can tell you is you need to stay with poker until casinos run blackjack the way you want them to. Personaly I have no problem paying a fee if it means I can play in the tournament and from talking to most players I think they feel the same way. I do agree some casinos go way overboard on what they payout vs. what comes in (Fitzgeralds in Las Vegas is the worst I've seen), but most are pretty fair taken all that you get.
