I'm going to be playing in the follow-up event to the BJ tournament in Prague which I posted about previously - https://www.blackjacktournaments.com/threads/7537 (This time here in London) I was going to post a link to the rules, but annoyingly the page which had them has disappeared. (I have a local copy in a PDF file) But the key differences from last time are - The accumulation stage produces 7 qualifiers from 28 players. Rather than 3 rounds of BJ, the qualification is 2 rounds of BJ + 2 rounds of roulette. The final is then one round each of BJ and roulette. The betting limits for the BJ are min 10, max 100, BR 500. (21 hands per round.) The betting limits for the roulette are only partially known at this stage - For a single number the limits are min 1, max 100. I expect they will both be higher for outside bets. The BR is 200. (And it's 20 spins per round.) I believe the roulette game wil be the UK standard: single-zero, with the partage rule (half your stake back if you make an even-money bet and zero comes up). In the qualification phase we will alternate between rounds of BJ and roulette, with two tables of 7 playing BJ while the other two play roulette. For the final, it's not stated clearly which order the games will be played in, but I get the impression the roulette will be last. Unlike the BJ, there is no mention of a button for controlling the order of the betting action in the roulette, and I suspect it will be a free-for-all up to the point when 'no more bets' is called. I've been pondering how the addition of the roulette might impact the goal figure for qualification, and also what the best strategy for the roulette phase might be. As ever, any advice would be welcome.
And Now For Something Completely Different Well, now this is something new! I was hoping that some folks who have actually played in a roulette tournament would post with their advice. Hopefully someone has done this before. In the meantime, I can post my thoughts with the caveat that I have no experience at all with roulette tournaments. I think that it will be even more important than usual to talk to people in order to find out what the appropriate goal will be. Wong's formula is based on the bell curve for blackjack sessions and it also breaks down for small number of advancers. If you play blackjack first, then you may be able to glean some information from the totals attained by the players who play roulette first. Variance is usually your friend in accumulation situations. WIth that in mind, I would think that you would want to make a bet on a straight up number on every spin until you're within range of your goal. Wait as long as possible before betting so that you can bet on a number that no one else has bet on. Once you're within range of your goal, consider betting the appropriate amount on the highest odds (lowest payout) bet which will reach your goal. For example, if you can reach your goal with an odd/even bet, then do so. If not, then consider betting on 12 numbers and so on. This will provide you with a progression of sorts for that final bet to reach your goal. When nearing the end of the session, consider the probabilities of making your goal with a combination of bets. For example, you are more likely to win 2 consecutive odd/even bets (18/37 x 18/37 = 0.2367) than you are to win a 6 number bet (6/37 = 0.1622), but less likely than a 12 number bet (12/37 = 0.3243). A complete table could easily be developed using a spreadsheet. With a BR of only 200 and a max of 100 on the inside and only 20 spins, it is possible that many players will either bust out by being aggressive or win/lose small amounts by being conservative. It could be that the roulette sessions are not that significant when all is said and done. For roulette in the final, you can use the high house edge to your advantage by betting minimum on odd/even to start and then betting minimum on opposite bets or higher paying bets to catch up when behind. If ahead, you can use correlation strategies to your advantage by making the same bets as your competition. If there is no button, then delaying your bets will work to your advantage here. Once again, this may all be nonsense due to my inexperience with any kind of roulette tournament, but even so, it may give you some things to think about. As I write this, I'm wondering if Wong's Tournament Strategy has a chapter on roulette. I don't have my copy with me.
Thanks, gronbog. That echoes a lot of what I have been considering. (And, no, there is no roulette chapter in Wong.)
Playing Order An interesting point made by gronbog is about getting on the Blackjack tourney first and playing the roulette game next. Do you already know the playing order or how it will be decided on the day? Andy
Well I made the final this time. In the final I came 6th out of 7, so there is still a little room for improvement. The qualifying scores of the top seven were - 1. 2895 2. 2380 3. 2190 4. 2123 (me) 5. 2113 6. 2095 7. 1725 It's interesting how far 7th place was behind the rest. It turns out I could have qualified with a lot less of the risk-taking which I indulged in to get to my total. But on the other hand, if just one more person had had a big win (at the roulette, say), then my score would have been just 28 above the qualifying threshold. One problem was that it turned out that the games did not alternate as I had assumed. Instead, one group played two roulette tables followed by two blackjack, while the other group did the opposite. Alas, I was in the group which started with the roulette which made things awkward. I got off to a good start at the first table (finding myself in 7th place) and elected to coast through the next, just preserving my BR. After the second table I was down to 15th place. I had seen a couple of players winning big at roulette (one player at my table turned his 200 starting chips into over 1500), and I was a bit slow to realise that the leaderboard might be painting a somewhat false picture at the halfway stage, because many of the top scores would be people who had played two bj tables (with 2 *500 starting chips, compared to 2 *200 for the roulette players). So I stopped coasting and set myself a target which may have been overly high (although, maybe not, given what I said in the first paragraph). But all was well, since I did manage to reach my goal. But even then I wasn't sure if it was enough, and had a tense wait while the final update of the leaderboard took place on the computer.
fun, fun, fun Like the previous event in Prague, this was as much a social occasion as anything else. I met a lot of the same people as last time, both players and Unibet staff. Plus Andy was able to visit and experience the event with me. The next scheduled tournament is going to be in December, in the Caribbean! There are no details yet about the casino-tournament side of things, just the poker. I'll certainly be trying to qualify, one way or another. As with Prague, there are images and videos of London available on the www.unibetopen.com web site. I thought Andy had escaped having his image captured, but no; he is there if you know where to look for him! It may depend on your browser, but I found I couldn't play the videos except by going to their YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/unibetopen And you can also go directly to the images - https://picasaweb.google.com/Unibet.Open/UOLondon2012Day2#
Congrats! Well done manoeuvring the uncharted waters of the roulette portion of this tournament. Was the final also a roulette/blackjack hybrid? If so, can you give us an idea of how people approached it?
Thanks. Yes it was. I think the approach was in general much the same as for qualifying. Some were conservative, some rashly aggressive, and it was probably only in the last few hands (we played the bj last) that anyone thought seriously about sizing their bets with any particular purpose in mind. I made a few dumb moves, but had a chance to get back in the mix on the penultimate hand, when I was able to get three max bets in play. I needed the dealer to bust, but he failed to cooperate. Someone had already busted out completely, so I had a lock on 6th place on the last hand, with no hope of advancing any higher.
Tournament Tournament I did say to London Colin that I would report only on the social side of the event and leave it up to him to give the facts and information about the tourney. I will post that later. However, my thoughts are. Like Colin has stated the playing of two roulette tournaments one after another was a disadvantage for the players drawn in that round. The roulette and Blackjack tables were at the side of each other and I still can’t understand why the organisers after complaints from other players, set this rule in place. Another point was that on the final table I saw a player desperate to split tens to bring some money in. He was not allowed to do that because of the Casino house rules which I found stupid. The final table to watch Colin’s last Blackjack table on the final was obscured for spectators. After mentioning this to Unibet staff, guests were allowed at the table to stand behind their players so it was okay. Colin is a Blackjack player and there is no doubt that he hated the roulette part of the tournament. I was allowed to see private Emails to him from Blackjack Tournaments.Com giving playing advice. A testimony to the guys on this site who spent the time writing four pages of detailed strategy helping one of their own fellow members out. On a light hearted note I noticed that Colin kept betting on the number 35 on the roulette table. I was intrigued by this, thinking it was very personal to him and a special date such as a birthday or an anniversary of a family bereavement. I asked him about this when he came off the table only to be to be told “It was the nearest number near to where I was playing and so I did not need to keep reaching and leaning over the table”. Well you have to ask….lol Andy
This raises an excellent point in preparation. It is important to understand all of the rules of play in every detail before the tournament begins. Every house has different rules and these rules affect the percentages, which in turn affects our strategy decisions. In this case, not being able split 10s decreases the chances of getting 2, 3 and 4 bets into play which makes covering these situations less valuable. I always try to get the details from a tournament official before play starts and definitely not at the table, so as to not allow the other players at my table(s) to benefit from the information. I do this regardless of whether the rules have been specified in print or online. Of particular importance are knowing whether you can double for less, which hands can be doubled, whether re-splitting is allowed, whether doubling after splitting is allowed, whether surrender is offered, how much is paid for a blackjack, whether one can take even money without sufficient bankroll for the insurance bet. Some players are completely unaware of surrender and knowing this has allowed me to make some better bets in critical situations.
I'm not sure if there were any other complaints. I spoke to a couple of players who shared my view that alternating would have been a lot better, but I don't know if anyone other than me mentioned it to the organisers. I don't have a huge problem with that. The tournament rules say that we use the house rules for the game being played. I'm sure that helps keep things familiar for the dealers, but it does tend to rule out a few tournament-specific actions, splitting unalike tens [in this case] being just one example. E.g., you also can't double on a BJ, and in most places you can't double for less, etc. I think a much bigger issue was the dealer button procedure. Only the betting was governed by the button; the playing of the hands still always started at first base, as per usual. I wouldn't exactly say I hated it. I was just very conscious of the mismatch between the theoretical knowledge that I've picked up about how best to approach it, and the practical difficulties I knew I would face trying to think, calculate, and act quickly and accurately enough to be able to apply that knowledge before the words 'no more bets' are uttered.
I accept what Colin has said and maybe I used the words complaint and hated inaccurately in my post. I spoke to a Dutch player who had also discussed this with the organisers about not alternating the roulette and Blackjack games. There was no big thing made about this, but one could argue that if players are bringing this up with the organisers then some sort of complaint was actually being made. However, No angry exchanges were made or anything like that and the Unibet staff were all lovely and helpful to players and guest. I forgot to mention the dealer button on my last post and agree with what Colin has said about this. I should have said that Colin disliked the roulette part of the tournament rather than hating it (However he did okay). I disagree with Colin about the Casino house rules. Blackjack Tournament players should be allowed to play with the rules that they are familiar with. I am not a member of Unibet, but if players on the site were allowed to qualify by splitting tens and doubling on a BJ etc then it should carry on to the live game. I played in Rick Jenson’s tournament in Seattle and his BJ game had his tournament rules which we played by. The casino had different house rules for Blackjack but the dealers made the changes for the tourney. Andy
Social side of the London tournament The good thing about being a member of blackjacktournaments.com is that you can stay in touch with your fellow players. London Colin had qualified for the tournament and out of the blue via this site invites me as his guest. It’s free for me to stay at the hotel with meals and complimentary drinks at the casino and organised venues. All I have to do is buy a railway ticket which I do. I arrive in London but unfortunately I am not feeling well. In a lot of pain and feverish due to an old problem with an internal abscess which appears to occur every few years. At this stage I am contemplating just meeting and saying hello to Colin and catching the next train back to Manchester. However, after dosing myself up with pain killers the problem resolves itself and I feel much better. I meet Colin at the hotel which is situated near to Olympic village and stadium. We check out the Asper’s casino which is located in the same location. Although nothing like the size of Las Vegas size casinos this is the largest one that I have ever visited in the U.K. I notice that the Unibet poker event has already started and it’s a really big event. We have a drink in a bar before the meet and greet party at the casino. London beer is expensive and terrible and I feel sorry for anyone visiting the capitol from abroad. Colin and I settle in a bar at the side of the hotel which has its own micro brewery attached to it. All the beers are very strong and we are on one of the weakest at 6.8 alcohol by volume. It can only be described as we say up north as tasting like “Old mans underpants”. Colin felt a bit tired on the tourney day which was probably due to the 6.8 ABV beer. We move on to the casino and are shown to a private function room for the meet and greet. Colin knows some of the Unibet staff and other players from past tournaments and we are made very welcome. We are given free champagne and tickets to give to the waiters for drinks of our choice. I like to smoke a small cigar and go on an attached outside terrace at the side of our private room. I notice that you can hire a Shisha or Hookah pipe with various flavoured tobacco for £20. I really wanted to have a go on one and get Colin to take a picture but it never came off. Colin played really well in the tournament and has he has reported, is placed in the money (I am offered a massage by a lovely girl in the casino while I am watching him play which I decline. It’s an Indian head massage so nothing naughty). We go to the after party at an American venue in the London 02 Arena. I go over to the bar to buy drinks but Colin calls me back and before you know it the Unibet staffs are fussing over him and we are supplied with free drinks again for the night. The next day, Colin puts me on a train and we say our goodbyes. Andy
Great post! I am in complete agreement. We should never overlook the social aspect of being involved in this online community and the events themselves. I feel fortunate that there are a number of members here who live near enough to me that we can attend some of the same events. It's nice to be able to talk face to face about tournament play with people who's eyes don't immediately glaze over and who don't roll their eyes at the idea that one can gain advantage over the other players (and the casino) by using the strategies we learn here. I am also grateful to those people who have helped me expand my reach by vouching for me with regard to gaining entry to certain events. The old adage rings true: sometimes it's not what you know, but who you know. Finally, it's nice to simply have people to socialize with during these events. My wife stopped coming with me to tournaments a while ago and it can be a bit lonely killing time between rounds, and sometimes overnight without people to hang with. I encourage people to make use of the "I will attend" feature on the event calendar and to make contact with others from this site who will be attending the same events as you.
