Well I guess it was bound to happen – it always seems like Mr. Murphy is right around the corner when you least expect him and his “Murphy’s Law” to appear. With the cancellation of the BJT at the Imperial Palace in Vegas it begs the question – why? Was it timing – Good Friday and Easter weekend? Was it too small of a prize pool/tournament? Was it poor promotion? Was it good promotion but poor participation? Was it due to the proliferation of online TBJ (i.e., Bet21.com)? Was it due to having too many BJT scheduled (i.e., supply and demand)? I guess this cancellation brings several questions to mind. As someone with very little experience with live BJT I have been told that the “Golden Era” for BJT was in the 1970’s but that the BJT vanished. It is my personal observation that there seems to be more BJT opportunities available in the past few months and in the upcoming months. However the vast majority of 100,000 and above prize funds are strictly invitational only events. My question is WHY? Let me explain. For the most recent WSOB they had super satellite events consisting of 2,500 and 1,000 entry fees. These satellites were sold out and the host (GSN) could have easily held additional high money satellites. At a recent BJ event in Niagara Falls with a 1,000 entry they were sold out (168 entries) with no possibility of a rebuy. The word is that a large crowd is expected at the Tunica Horseshoe for their 250,000 BJT with a 1,000 buy in. Now for an average BJ player these amounts may seem high, for others used to playing at the WSOP they may simply scoff while others are in the middle. What I find interesting is that while the IP BJT was cancelled there are several more big-time BJT being held in Las Vegas and other regions: Caesars 50K Flamingo Millionaire Maker Gold Coast 30K Orleans 20K Treasure Island And so the list goes on. However all of the above are invitational only! WHY? I understand why a casino would want to provide incentives for their best players/customers and having free tourneys is a great way to bring people back (it works for me!) but why not open them up to everyone else also? The high rollers get the comped entries and the other players get a chance to play. The casinos recoup some of their costs and it is a win-win situation for everyone. For example if you’re a casino holding a 100K BJT and you’re expecting 100-150 of your high rollers for the tourney great. Have 50 open seats available for 300 or 500 buy-in. At 300 you’re re-cooping 15,000 at 500 you’re re-cooping 25,000 (almost ¼ of the tournament cost). Now couple that with the rebuys that all players have to take and these tournaments become a lot more cost effective. But why open yourself up to “outsiders” the tournament directors may say? Simple trying to attract new clients. Take me for example. I usually make 3-4 visits to Vegas and always stayed at the Venetian – heck I even got married there. Then I got invited to the Gold Nugget for a BJT and guess what – Hey I like it there! I went back in February and I plan on going back in May. I haven’t gone to the Venetian but have stayed downtown because of the treatment. Another example will be with the Oklahoma BJT. As a person who goes to Atlantic City and the Bahamas and Vegas I would have never dreamed of going to Oklahoma. But through good word of mouth I plan on attending the BJT in May 2007. Will I like it? Who knows but I’m doing something different. My point is this should these invitational BJT open their doors and allow some open fee participants? That’s my .25 cents – what’s yours?
Most everyone here is probably thinking the same thing. Indeed, many have made posts saying basically the same thing. Trouble is that casino management runs the tournaments and makes the rules. It's their bat and their ball. They get to say who plays. And that's the truth. One more point. Although it may appear that there are more BJ tournaments, the fact is that there are less and less tournaments and fewer and fewer open tournaments and even less quality tournaments. AND THAT AIN'T ABOUT TO CHANGE ANYTIME SOON Personally, I believe the reason for less open tournaments is the fact that the tournament players don't give the casinos the side action they want. So by holding invitationals, they draw the players that have either a good record of play or potentially will become loyal players. They weed out the dead beats with each successive invite. If I were on the other side of the fence it would make perfect sense to me.
open Hey Guys Do Not Forget That We All Want Open Tournaments So Stand Behind Tex And His Tournaments After All This What We All Want And He Is Working For Us Players-i Believe We Will Have Our Dance Card Full For The Year With His Tournaments Along With Ubt Wsob And Tulsa With That Said If You Could Play 12 Tournaments A Year (once A Month )that Is What The Doctor Ordered So Good Luck To All On Your Quest For 1st Place And In The Money:d :d
Really????? Do we? Me, personally, FGK42, yes I want open tournaments. I don’t care who I play whether it’s you Maxwell or World Champion BJ Ken Einiger. I feel that I can learn from every player and have a lot to improve upon so, yes I WANT OPEN TOURNAMENTS. As far as other players – I’m not so sure about that. When you have a closed event (or invitational only) you can control the competition to a certain degree. Look at the “top dogs” in the poker world and their statements (I heard this from Freddy Deeb on WSOP) I can read any good player but it’s these nobodies that I just don’t know about. So if you’ve got experienced TBJ players and you’ve got an inkling of what style they use, how they bet, etc., isn’t that an advantage over the unknown who sits at your table? I mean if you wanted to become a FAMOUS BLACKJACK PLAYER (live the poker players) would you want competition or would it be easier to just face hand picked ploppies? Why not have invitational tourneys for the few, the in crowd, the UB_ - well you get my drift. Just a thought. Have you registered for the first TBJPA event, how about the second in Oklahoma or the 3rd on the cruise ship? I’m just curious not accusing. As for myself I won’t be at the inaugural TBJPA event in Laughlin due to prior commitments. This is a good dream – hopefully it will become a reality. However with the TBJPA I wouldn’t expect a monthly event just when it starts out. Remember UBT pledged in their radio address to have monthly events. So far only 2 down and only 2 more scheduled. So dreams are good and necessary but reality can be a cold hard slap in the face at times! I think that with the introduction of the WSOB and UBT television events that the casino event managers would be WISE to try something new and different. If you’re happy with status quo keep doing what you are. If you want to improve, grow and move forward changes are necessary. I like what people like Eric Woods in doing at the Cherokee in Oklahoma by hosting multiple events it makes it more likely that people OUTSIDE the area will come into town and try something. Hopefully TBJ will begin to grow and thrive. I’d like to see more and more OPEN tournaments and that was why I suggested that these invitational tourneys provide a limited number of buy-ins. Hopefully some of the casino personnel who are in a position of authority will troll on by and read some of these posts….We can hope can’t we?
No way <<My point is this should these invitational BJT open their doors and allow some open fee participants? __________________>>> They are using the tournaments not only as a promotion for players that show loyalty, via play, but also as a filter to weed out people they dont want in their tournaments. Why open the door via fee buy-in to some of the best players in the world to win the money they are using to reward their players? A perfect example of this is a top player- here- has said he uses the gavel as a form of advantage play. Why in the hell let him buy in, win the money the casinos put up for loyal players, and then sue the casino for a hang nail. The invite is a part of a good business plan. Whenever we visit a casino, that still has open events, we need to play even if its a 5¢ slot, be courteous, and tell the directors thank you. Dont sit around chastising the "ploppies" and the director.
fgk42 To Answer Your Question About Tex 's 1st Tourny I Really Want To Be There But I Am A Little Guy With A Low Bankroll Untill My Bankroll Multiplies I Am Not Financially Able To Take Part On The 1st Event But You Can Bet That I Will Be There In The Future -i Am Trying To Be In Tulsa In May For That Tourny And I Am Trying To Help GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT TBJPA In The Southern Louisiana Casinos(LAKE CHARLES AREA) If I Can And I Hope You Are Doing The Same In Your Area We All Know That Tbj Is A Rich Mans Game Or Retired Mans Game Or Both (time And Money) :d :d I AM NOT OFFENDED BY ANYTHING SAID
Barney and FGK FGK- I agree with you and do wish the invite only tourneys would open up a certain number of spots for people off the street to pay to get in. Barney- I agree with you that when we go to open tourneys that we need to give the casino side action. I always play on the side and give the casino a chance at my money. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. I go to many tourneys local and out of town where I see alot of players show up and never give the casino any side action. A person has the right not to play on the side but I believe it hurts the blackjack tournament world by their not playing. Side note- I love invite only tourneys for a couple of reason. Usually, but not always, free entry fees, your rooms are comped and by giving them some side action your meals are usually comped too. Secondly the competition is typically inferior to that at open events (again usually but not always). I can walk into the big open events all over the country and will know anywhere from 20-30 people or more. These 20-30 people are usually quality players. Some of the invite only tourneys I play in I will only know a few folks and many of the invitees have never played a tourney before or maybe just a few. Advantage thrasht. Another side note- When I play in Vegas I target the casinos that are most likely to give me invites based on my play. I don't put in my hours at the Venetian or Casaer's or other high end casinos because they want the $200-400 average bett over a long period of time. I target the Station casinos, Imperial Palace, the Orleans (old Stardust tourneys) and some of the other lower end casinos because I know I can stay on their A list by giving them green chip play ($25-50 average for me). If you can't afford green chip play then I find most folks have to wait for the open events. Just my thoughts.
Very true and valid point - AGREED Good point and my answer is this - PRIDE. If you're playing against one of the top notch players and beat them how does it make you feel? How many people pay thousands if not tens of thousands to see their hero's at baseball events or to play with the retired players? Pro-Am's I think they're called? It is good promotion. That's the beauty of it. Have an invitational event with fifty paying spots. If you don't want the above individual you don't let them play - it's your casino it's your event so keep those "undesirables out" The invite is good for cementing player loyalty but it does NOTHING to encourage NEW PLAYERS or to INCREASE BUSINESS. MGM, PARIS, TI, FLAMINGO, PALMS, and others have invitational only BJT. I would be willing to pay to play in those tourneys but I'm not allowed. So when I go to Vegas to play in BJT do you think I'm going to give those places any action? NO FRIGGIN WAY! So this black chip player goes where I'm treated well and right now the GN is top on my list. Funny thing is that just YESTERDAY I got a note from my former favorite place in Vegas saying they miss me and haven't seen me in awhile, is there anything I need? Yeah BJT I answered and guess what they next invitational they have I'm in. Funny thing - I have players cards at MGM, Paris, NY NY, Ballys, etc... but I won't go there because I don't get the invites.
<We All Know That Tbj Is A Rich Mans Game Or Retired Mans Game Or Both (time And Money)> Here is another big problem even with a 300+ buy such as the IP. )BTW, the IP failure is do to the buy in price, bad scheduling during a cultural event aka Easter, and the depletion of snowbirds IMO) The demand for BJT is low buyin games because BJT is a game that has a-lot and I mean a-lot of retired people filling the player population. These are people on fixed income. They look to fill time with little risk. In Laughlin there are about 60 full time BJT players when you remove the snowbirds. I have tried to inform players in Laughlin about the TBJPA event and here is my guess of how many will play. 1 to none. You cant use the WSOB super satellites as a barometer here as it was a special event that drew in the top players of "pro" quality. The hurdle for BJT is to bring draw in the lower level players that are a majority of the player supply or create a new upper level risk group. By upper level I dont mean buyers of 1000$ events but any event over 100$.
thrasht I havent got to know Stormy here in cyber world but have you a little bit as I have Leah and Marichal. My pure guess is people like y'all are a key to the game we desire. Good people with good intentions and a love for the game. My guess is the 4 of you dont sit around smack talking the directors and looking to screw the casino at any chance. Its amazing how far a little good will will go.
WHAT Where do you get off saying ridiculous statements like that? Where’s your data? Who told you that? I just don’t get it. Have you considered this? Maybe where YOU play there are only retired people? Go to Atlantic City during the week from 10 am to 5 pm and all you’ll find is the retired people who take the busses into and out of AC. Yeah the yuppies and other people are working. So if you hold tourney’s at noon on Wednesday guess who’s gonna come? REALLY? Are you sure they just don’t want to sit at your table? :joker: A full time BJT player would RUN and JUMP at the chance to play in TX’s Laughlin tournament. Not walk, but RUN (assuming they could throw away their walker right?) for the chance at a lower buy-in, no expenses $20 rooms, etc. True – but it drew people didn’t it? Barney there are plenty of BJT under 100. Look at the weekly list, etc. The goal is to take it to the next level where you can attract people. I guess the Masters Gold Tournament is wrong because they charge too much to people like Tiger Woods right? Do you think Tiger would compete in your local golf charity match? Doubtful. The problem is getting enough people at ALL LEVELS to play TBJ. Period. END OF DISCUSSION. We need more players and at all levels. There just aren’t enough medium and high level tourney’s for people to “make a living” like pro golfers or pro bowlers, etc. (No offense to Marichael here) I BET you that of the 60 full time BJT players in Laughlin 10% will play in TX’s tourney. Right TX?
Seems like its a Catch22 situation then... I have to agree that Casinos need side action to support a tournament cost...and most tournament events I have been in I dont see these tournament players offering much side action...Regular tournament players are above average in gaming ...I think. They understand the low quality of the regular game being offered and thats why you see them heading for the door as soon as the tourney is over...also there is the retired, fixed income factor to a degree... Im not sure if there is an answer....the low buyin events are always full but casinos cant make a dime on these....higher stakes (even when its a great EV) like IP events are not filling up...I also agree and understand why casinos hold invite events to reward their whales....and it would foolish on their part to allow whale killing sharks to buy in to these events... But Fred makes a strong point....I always play when Im at a casino (some call it an addiction;-))..not at a whale level ...but not many are marketing to me... So....Im not getting the invites to the TV shows even though I could certainly give the regulars there a run for the money... Im not getting the invites to the whale and pony shows.... I dont have the bankroll (yet) to play many of the higher entry fee events to which you must add travel and overhead expenses... So whats that leave me with ??? Low to Mid entry fee local events with a few bargain travel to's..... And they are not offering a green chip player anything much... Personally for me ...located out here on the fringe of reasonable travel and playing expense....Im glad to have online action! Even though things arent perfect yet and the darn dum azz government cant seem to get itself into and out of where the heck it belongs....I love these games....Ive enjoyed every online Tournament BJ site so far....some are much better than others but they all are ok. Some have the potential (Like UB/Bet21) to link up with live big money events....This is our best hope and future I think. I so hope they are a great success!!!! Online poker is still HUGE!!!! I play on a few new sites and they are getting huge amounts of player action....thousands of players logged on to sites only up and running a few weeks ... SO these online sites plus the TV events plus reasonable cost events like Rick is offering are our last best hope at growing the game... As much as I complain about the Freerolls at UBT etc....they do put a lot of new faces in front of this game. With the high addiction factor it is only a matter of time b4 they jump into the money games... As a side note....while the TEC point games remain a joke ...the level of play in the regular game there is getting much better....for those put off by the wild play of the past I advise you give it another try....its actually pretty good lately. Its a shame events like IP dont go off.... I think the partial answer is to hold linked events much like the Canadian Masters events they hold in Ontario and QB Canada....these events always fill up.... they offer a shot at big big money and the buy in is affordable to the masses...7 or 8 semi events per year plus one huge final event....and they are constantly asking questions as to how to improve it.... I doubt IP event problem was related to the holiday...they didnt sell the event...marketing is key there...gotta get the word out to the players mindlessly tossing down 200, 300 a hand on a 6 deck shoe game....I guarentee they are looking for a break in pace that offers some action and big money.
Bingo FGK <WHAT Where do you get off saying ridiculous statements like that? Where’s your data? Who told you that? I just don’t get it. >> My data is from playing in small games and talking with the player supply, this is something you are void of as your experience is in high limit games like the WSOB super satellites etc. You dont get it because you are out of touch with the player pool. The small games fill up. The big games dont. The bulk of BJT demand is in mini tournaments with low risk high reward. The reason is- the proof is in the pudding. Ill say it again, out of 60 full time players in Laughlin we will be lucky to see 1 at the TBT River Palms. I hope Im wrong but your guess of 10 will be proven dead wrong. BTW, most of the weekly games in Laughlin are 5pm and later. The key to 'hope' of gaining local players at the River Palms is this web page, I hope Higgy or Tex will get it added soon! Sad to say, even talking with players whom have won thousands of dollars, even in a month, when you mention a 150 buy in the lights turn off I can see it in their eyes. I dont get it, but thats the way it is. http://www.laughlinentertainer.com/
FGK is correct in saying the TBJPA doesn't have monthly events, that is why I haven't posted about the events I do have scheduled. I am hoping and working on getting more TBJPA tournaments, but until I do I will only advertise the events I do have on the schedule. I will not promise or post about any TBJPA tournament until I have them confirmed. Above I read that Maxwell had mentioned the Tulsa events as TBJPA events, this is not correct. I have been talking with Eric Woods about sanctioning their tournaments by the TBJPA and trying to have Cherokee host one of the TBT events, but nothing is confirmed. As far as Eric Woods in Tulsa, he is a good guy and I believe he is going to be one of the better Tournament Directors around, but don't think that it is just a TD that makes up these good tournaments and that players don't have anything to do with them. Two years ago I first went up to Tulsa's Cherokee casino for the WSOB III qualifiers. At that time their tournaments were 18 hands, one winner per table, no surrender, they used flip cards to count down the hands, no re-buys, no multiple tournaments, no DD for less, no insurance for less, no maximum bet, etc..., you get where I am going. I sat down with Eric (who by the way really wanted to run successful events) and told him what the players want and what it will take to get them to Tulsa. So you can see my point, just one player can make a difference, of course we still need someone in the casinos that are willing to work with us to make these changes happen. Like my TBJPA events, all I can do is contact the different casinos, but if I don't find casino personnel willing to give them a chance the TBJPA can't succeed. The good news is there are other casino personnel out there that feel the same way and luckly they have been contacting me from reading about the TBJPA on this site. All we can hope is that they are able to talk their bosses into giving the TBJPA a chance.
You know when I reported on the cancellation of the IP Tournament, not in my wildest dreams did I think that such a firestorm and panic would set in here on BJT. Guys and girls relax it was one tournament that was scheduled over Easter weekend and also during a Jewish holiday season.Their timing was poor but its not the end of the world.There is some "BIG" tournament news that will be coming out in the next week or so that we all make you forget about this one isolated cancellation and you will all be running to make your plane,car and train reservations to be part of the tournament BOOM for 2007.Its BIG NEWS.....................TRUST ME Joep
