What makes a good tournament? I guess it depends upon what you’re looking for? Sure we all know that you want a positive EV, affordable entry fees, rebuys, yadda yadda yadda. I don’t want to talk about the nuts and bolts. Instead I would like to talk about the intangibles. In my brief tourney experience I have concluded that there are simply two type of BJT players: the “pro’s” and the “recreational” players. For the sake of my post, let me define these groups with my own definitions. People that I would classify as “pros” (PBJTP) take the whole BJT scene very seriously because they believe that their participation can seriously add to their bottom line and they believe that the majority of their income is derived from these events. These “pros” use a no nonsense, positive EV, just show me the money approach. They decide which tournaments to play based upon expected ROI (return on their investment). Now there is another type of “pro” BJT player – the ones who know that they can parlay their BJT exposure into something tangible – either a feather in their cap, another medallion/diamond for their resume or in the case of UBT, television exposure or possible networking for selling books, seminars, etc. The “other” BJT players, which I have classified as “recreational TBJ players” RTBJP (of which I am one) still care about all of the above mentioned properties however it is NOT their first priority when participating in BJT. In fact for the “recreational” BJT players intangibles such as social interaction and meeting friends is just as important as the payouts. Another group of RTBJP love the game and while the money, prizes, etc is important the game itself is THE most important aspect. Finally within the RTBJP there is a subset who want to eventually raise their stakes and become “pros”. Other things that are important to these players is how they feel they are “treated”. Who cares and what difference does it make? In my opinion a lot because in order to expand and excel at what you do you need to identify your clients/market and target your services towards those whom you wish to do business with. One of the two tournaments that I attended did this and I felt the response was overwhelming positive. The other tournament felt like someone trying to force a square peg into a round hole. So does that mean one format is better than the other? That’s not my purpose of this thread nor will I attempt to answer that - here. I see benefits of both tournaments and based upon my classification of BJT players feel that both types of tournaments can succeed – given the right marketing/promotion and players. The other thing that I would people to consider is this – Why isn’t there a BIGGER TBJ player pool? Whether this is RTBJP or PTBJP? What are the barriers to increasing the player pool? Should the player pool BE increased or is it just right the way it if? Do we create something different to attract non TBJP? Or do you run the risk of creating a niche market that your “loyal followers” love and enjoy but no one else “get’s it?” The two groups, PTBJP and RTBJP, share many things and in fact I would say that many people will take offense to my classification(s). That is not my intention with this post/thread, rather I would hope to promote a discussion from the various TBJP in an attempt to hope those who are in a position to host/hold/promote BJT. Having attended two (2) totally different BJT at different locations, catering to different players within 24 hours provided me totally different perspectives and I hope that I conveyed my observations in my tournament reviews. It is my personal hope that both venues would be successful in the future, both EBJ and TBJ and I like to play both formats, heck I like to play ANY TBJ format. However I see something brewing on the horizon that may shed some light into the longevity of a certain style. So any thoughts, likes, dislikes?
tournaments FGK42 - good post - I think there are actually quite a few players - that enjoy playing tbj - and also hope to make a little money - even if not 'pro' level income - after all - that's part of gambling - maybe we are recreational players with dreams? I think there are several reasons the tbj pool is small - one - poker is an interactive game - you compete with the other players directly - bj is not interactive - so attracts a less competitive/interactive personality - but tbj is competitive - so simply is not appealing to the average bj player - two - many tournaments are poorly run and/or are seen by casinos as 'giveaway' promotions for a small number of high rollers - the average player doesn't get invited and the casinos don't want them - or - you simply don't want to come back for more - if all tournaments were run as well as Rick ran his - we would quickly build up a much larger pool of tbj players - my hope is that Rick can not only put on a lot more tournaments - and start attracting local players who then continue to play in other tourneys - but also educate the host casinos on how to set up and run a tourney -
Rk! I have convinced Mrs Stone BJT is a skill game like horseshoe or dart tournaments. Its not gambling! FYI :laugh:
Well Barney, lucky you... I personally failed in convincing my wife,my older sister (a nun) and the rest of my family that TBJ is not gambling. One thing for sure though. I'm a lifetime gambler (RECREATIONAL) and I know for a fact that my gambling dropped 80 per cent since I started playing TBJ. In my mind, TBJ is not gambling but a sporting event like others structured in a way were you pay an entry fee that goes to building a pool divided between a group of winners (e.g. bowling). Comparing gambling to TBJ is like comparing an apple to a carrot. What's fun so far about the tournament series I play in (Quebec Masters 2007-2008) is that they are open to all comers, offering more than 100% equity (considering the comps) and well run. All players are treated with courtesy and their comments are taken into account. So far, the player pool is mostly if not totally made up of enthusiastic recreational players. We had a survey last year where the players strongly suggested dropping the hybrid format. The casinos listened and they did just that this year. Having played two so far (April and May), the new rules are great : three ways to qualify for the semis (win a table, if you fail, a second chance to win a table (no buy-in), and if you fail again, six wild cards (accumulation format). For the final, one spot is still drawn, but they also introduced a form of EBJ (low BR eliminated on hand 7, 13, 18, 22, 25, then the last two players go heads up for 5 hands). I just came back from Charlevoix (first place 33k) where another member from this forum Zweeky was also entered. They had 83 players out of a limited entry pool of 84 (one dropped out sick). I missed the final table by and inch, my only opponent left getting BJ for a second time in a row on the last hand, me being on the button and having taken the low. Still won tournament points that might help me win a free entry in the Grand Finale in March 2008 (200k first place). Beautiful. I love the fact that I played well and that I was there at the end. Obviously, I would have loved advancing further and the money would surely have been welcome. Still, I loved it and the $1500 I made really gambling in the casino (4 of a kind at Let it Ride) covered expenses. My wife and I had a great time...and also the other couple that joined us on the trip. We missed you and your lovely wife BJfan4!!! See you next month in Montreal (50k first place - entries limited to 126). Nice post again Fred and I agree with you on the recreational part. Personally, I've never met a pro as such (though I suspect one individual of being one) and can't comment on that aspect.
Re Charlesvoix/Archie Thanks for the report on the tournament. Nice to know that all is well with the Quebec Masters BJT. A last minute conflict stopped me from going. Sorry to hear that an opponent's BJ got you on the last hand. Sh...T happens.
