After my numerous and persistent e-mail to Bet21 Customer Support (they'd rather be called Ultimate Bet Customer Support, it seems), I finally got a straigtht answer from CS. Here it is : "Dear Dear xxxx, Thank you for contacting us. I really have to apologize for the error made by our Marketing Department. You are correct, that was posted and it is a clear mistake but please note that this product is being rolled out in stages and currently, Ultimate Points are not available in the Elimination Blackjack interface. We will be upgrading our systems over time and Ultimate Points will be made available while playing Elimination Blackjack. Please keep your eyes open for product release e-mails which will be sent out as upgrades are implemented. Should you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us xxxx Customer Support
My answer to that e-mail Here's my final response to CS on that topic : "Thank you xxx, It took a while to get a straight answer, but I appreciate it. It's now posted on a Message Board for all BJ players to see. To end the frustration of players immensely enjoying Bet.21.com excellent software, I would suggest that you develop a canned response in this vein. Thank again." See all the e-mail exchanges with CS in the previous thread, entitled "Bet21 Bonus $$$ UPDATE", started by Hollywood
I dont see this as a straight answer at all Arch... A straight answer would tell you when you will get your promised deposit bonus...they never told you anything except that yes...we intend (sometime) to phase this in....When????Next week, month, year???? You got some truth finally after several letters ..someone actually told you that they did promise a bonus...but currently that promise is on hold until they dam well feel like paying you. What is the phase in period??? Why is it taking so long??? We heard from the tour Pros that this issue would be resolved by x date...that passed and then it was Y date...that too has passed but no one feels the need to explain another delay.... I wish my creditors would allow me to keep putting off payments that I owe.
Ok...but it's a first step What I got from them is an admission that, to my knowledge, they never made before in the open, except indirectly through Joep and Hollywood. Let's focus on these few lines from their e-mail which does't sound like Bs : "please note that this product is being rolled out in stages and currently, Ultimate Points are not available in the Elimination Blackjack interface. We will be upgrading our systems over time and Ultimate Points will be made available while playing Elimination Blackjack." Would Ultimate Belt (mainly a poker site) be the upgrade they're talking about? I find their silence about Bet21 enigmatic.
It's the same software and same server with a different "skin". You can download and login to the UltimateBet software and you will see that you have the same account balance than Bet21. Updates are done silmutaneously. So UltimatePoints and Bet21Points are also the same thing.
Im not sure what the relationship is between the two sites....the accounts, games , tournaments run together...and yet there are several differences... UB site offers different bonus programs...last weekend they advertized 10% bonus in tournament dollars while Bet 21 had no special.The regular BJ game is quite different structure. Poker has differnet free rolls at each site and yet some are the same games.... I suspect these sites have the same principle owner with perhaps a few differnet partners between the two... No matter...they both have the same crappy CS department.. I have gotten the reply Archie got already....I got it months ago...if you write again you will be put back in the loop and get another letter about poker qualifing you for bonus dollars...blah blah... There is no reason to handle the matter in such an illusive and concendending fashon. There is no reason to have CS reps who cant answer questions about one of their games..and or to simply give incorrect answers. Finally there is no reason for so much silence from those in the know on this issue...many here know who owns this outfit...not only do they know the owners but they are in close contact with them .....some may even be them...lol But no one comes here with an update....we are left still trying almost in vain to get an update from CS....but that is insulting at this point... Is this how a good company takes care of its best customers? Id like to hear a Ken E radio program discussing this issue....Or a a few lines in "ALL IN " discussing the benefits and pitfalls of unregulated internet gaming. I suppose we could write to the Kenewake gaming commission about the problem ... My pending bonus dollars are <100 bucks..almost a non issue and yet the run around and avoidance by this company leaves a bad impression. No reps keeping us informed...they made the promise...nothing about phasing in anything slowly when they opened the doors... Perhaps its time to start digging into this problem...rather than just complaining. Why cant some rep from the company post here ? They can be named bear, cat, fox, or whatever but they should be posting...and the company pros ...since they are in tight with ownership ...should be encouraging that.
I would argue that we ought to give Bet21 a bit of a break. And I'll explain why... First: a little bit about Bet21 from my perspective. I think the best way to think of them is as another "brand name" of UltimateBet, much like how "The Gap" owns Banana Republic and Old Navy or Hilton owns Embassy Suites and Hampton Inn. They represent different markets that the company is shooting for. So, in UltimateBet's case, they decided to spinoff a blackjack-centric site, even though they use the same technology and pool of players. If you notice, the Bet21 pros are essentially all UB pros (especially the poker players) and mostly the same software. It doesn't mean that the two sites don't have different stakeholders, different management or different profit numbers, but they share a lot and are ultimately owned by the same group. (At least, this is my best guess from what I know). Now my point: Think about things from a business prospective from Bet21 and Ultimatebet. At some point in the past, UltimateBet decided to spend a large amount of their capital to develop a sister site, called Bet21 to try to capture a new market of player. They spent a lot on R&D to create tournament software, and spent a lot of marketing money to sponsor the UBT (almost entirely). As they are preparing to launch the software, the House of Reps pass the UIGEA. Within 2 months of launching the site, the Senate also passes the bill and the whole market goes haywire. CEOs are getting arrested and Netteller is getting shut down. The point is that Bet21 was created with a business plan and a growth plan all based on it growing and eventually paying for all the money that UB put into it. That business plan is now shot to hell. It's virtually impossible to get the sites to market to people who don't already gamble online, and I would guess that most players are now hunkering down and playing the websites they already have money in. Certainly, Bet21 is making some money, but not what they had planned for, and who knows if it's enough to cover their expenses. So, since the marketing isn't really gonna work and the player growth isn't there, the company is going to act like any other company and cut expenses. They will lay off customer service reps and keep on a skeleton crew that's probably overwhelmed. They don't have an R&D budget to spend, so the project of implementing bonus points on their BJ games drops to a low priority (a double whammy, since once they get it to work, they will immediately lose all the money they've promised but haven't given away yet). In a truly open market, we'd all leave and support the site that does all this better. But, at this point, this is essentially a black market. As such, we have as much invested in keeping Bet21 alive as they do in keeping us as customers. Keep in mind that they are still losing money on the majority of their "Guaranteed" Tournaments. In supporting Bet21, we ensure that the games we enjoy playing stick around, as well as making sure the site doesn't go belly-up, taking our money with them. There's nothing but reputation and the hope of continued revenue that requires them to pay us, so I don't think it's in our best interest to threaten that. So my point is...they know we're upset about the bonus system. They know what the score is. As long as we know what the score is also, we can do what's in our best interest. Note: I am not affiliated with UB or Bet21 in any way, nor do I have any actual inside knowledge of their business plan. Most of this is simply speculation and logic.
Wow, You are making alot of assumptions here. We could speculate that the owners cleaned up on the stock transaction and several partners made huge sums (tens of millions personally) . Now how would feel? If its not a viable business then it will close ...simple as that. Meanwhile they must pay the debts they took on. Its not trrue that they continue to lose money on the nightly guarentees...in fact they are doing quite well on most of them....dont forget to factor in the rake. I agree the business model they started with must change but change isnt always bad... I wouldnt surprized that they are doing better than expected because in fact they are one of the few remaining games in town.... As for less CS reps etc...maybe....but the few remaining CS reps can still give good answers rather than evasive ones... Im not sure....no one has bothered to explain anything. Perhaps they are treading with their heads just above water...but businesses find themselves in that position every day....would you be so gracious to GM if your new car broke down and when you returned it to be fixed under the warrenty they avoided you? Or told you maybe next month they will fix it? Im all for helping out the game....but I want shares of stock if Im gonna give up money owed to me. I guarentee I have less than every single owner of Bet21, UB. Course if I won the 25,000 guarentee event I might overlook a few dollars bonus...lol I really hope they can take this game all the way to the top...I honestly do....but they can never do it w/o paying the bills and being honest. Its just how business must work...or fail...whatever.
