Since I am in the Griffin book, I would be interested in knowing which casinos are known to screen their tournament entrants by looking at the Griffin book. This is a different question than asking which casinos that run tournaments subscribe to the Griffin service. These days I mostly give action to casinos via video poker, and my presence in the Griffin book is mostly ignored. I noticed in another thread that Hollywood Dave was bemoaning his barring from the Stardust tournaments because of Griffin. Did the barring from tournaments result from first being barred while playing bj in the Stardust casino?
Yeah, i popped my 86 cherry at the 'Dust back in 2001 & was told to pick up my checks and leave because: "we don't want your action here." geez, i didn't know they still used that language! it sounds so gangsta... funny thing is, i was actually DOWN MONEY for the session when i got the tap (about 30 minutes in). It was a heads-up killer single deck with awesome pen -- they just don't make 'em like that anymore! Definately BSF. (Before 6:5) I literally hadn't been back there in years (save the occasional late-nite prime rib @ the Paradise Cafe) when i heard about the "Come On Back" tournament they were throwing in conjunction with the MD II finals in order to win back some of the players they've alienated over the years. Imagine my surprise when they wouldn't take my money @ the registration desk! Instead I had some fucko suit come over and give me the whole line about how there is a "short list" of players not eligible to participate. He wouldn't elaborate despite my increasingly sarcastic questioning, and so I opted to sit and eat the free buffet 'dinner' provided for the registrants under the watchful eye of the suit who was, no doubt, unwilling to make a bigger scene than the one i just made in front of other registering guests & ready to have security tackle me if i stepped an inch closer to the 21 pit... I was concerned at first that this secondary barring was a result of the PR a few of us have received from the World Series, but Rick (TXTourplayer) put me in touch with a helpful host behind the scenes who confirmed for me that it was all still related to my initial 86-ing years ago. I know I am in Griffin, and as a result primarily play poker and BJ tourneys only now -- but until the Stardust have never been refused entry to a tourney, despite the Griffin status. Other players have told me similar stories of tournament-barring, but if you ask me its the most ridiculous thing a casino can do. It basically amounts to 'holding a grudge' because there is no way the Griffin-ed player can 'take advantage' over the casino while playing the tournament! you'd think the store would be happy to make back some of the money the counter had taken over the years, plus have the added bonus of updating their photo records & being able to keep a watchful eye on the perp. -hollywood dave.
Tourney barring because of Griffin status? I cannot tell from Dave's description whether he was barred from the Stardust tournament because he was in Griffin, or because he was previously barred from playing blackjack at the Stardust. This is a distinction that is relevant to me. I don't have a blackjack playing record at Stardust, but I am in the Griffin book. Suppose that I establish myself at Stardust as a video poker player. The first question is whether this will enable me to get invited to their table game tournaments. This succeeds at some casinos, fails at others. If, however, the Stardust routinely screens the tournament entrants against the Griffin book, then there is no point in trying to establish myself at Stardust. Back in the mid 90's, I had an unpleasant experience related to an invitational blackjack tournament at Bally's Las Vegas. I had never played blackjack at Bally's Las Vegas. I was invited to their bj tournament based on my video poker play. I accepted the invitation. A week before the tournament, I received a phone call from a host at Bally's Las Vegas telling me that I was not welcome in their tournament, and furthermore that they did not want my blackjack action either. What made this situation even more bizarre was that I was not in the Griffin book at that time, but that Ballys clearly took the extra step of having me put in the Griffin book. Clearly, someone connected with the tournament recognized me from some much earlier blackjack activity in some other casino, and didn't seem to like me very much. So, my original question still stands.
There's the short answer you're looking for. Sorry if it wasn't clear, sandwiched in with all the stream of consciousness stuff. Despite being in Griffin, I was barred from the recent Stardust tourney specifically (and ONLY) because of my past 86-ing at that store. So it would logically follow that despite other players being in Griffin (ie, YOU), they could still play tourneys @ the 'Dust if they had not been specifically barred there before. I know of several other players who are in Griffin, but were still able to play that particular tourney. -dave.
Ignorance Abounds Time for another Bradley Peterson one sided view of the issue from the players side but in all sincerity, it is simply lack of knowledge, ignorance and paranoia that lead to such decisions often times by the casinos. As we know, being able to count cards does not make one a skilled tournament player. But the people that runs these joints have no idea or clue to that. Scammers like Griffin prop the casinos up with fear that card counters will ruin their entire business somehow. This is great salesmanship as the result is that casinos keep subscribing to their lies and buying more. You should see some of my flyers. Full of lies. Slander. It lists known associates of mine, for example. These are people that I never even heard of, let alone know. There are numerous other untruthful statements as well. And listing compiling, listing and selling personal information about people without their consent, especially when it is full of lies that are used to trump up their product and increase sales should be, if it isn't, illegal. At the least, I and others should get a percentage of the sales. What does your agent think about that Dave? OK, enough venting. Well, maybe almost enough. I think that some of the idiot punks that run casinos and use such discriminatory procedures such as barring someone from a tournament, unless the casino is adding money to the prize package, are just insecure with themselves, their intelligence level and their penis or breast sizes, depending on their gender.
Who knows for sure? Bradley don't hold back, what do you really think...LOL. Actually I agree that casinos need to get their player development, marketing, tournament dept. and any other personnel a better understanding of tournament play and players. If the casinos would understand that they are throwing away money by not allowing certain players in the tournaments (I only mean with entry fees not VIP freebies) maybe things would change. I don't know many players who won't play something in the casinos while a tournament is going on. Even Griffin listed players who may not be allowed to play blackjack, play dice, poker, pai-gow poker, video poker...ect. Must be nice owning a business that can turn away money and still makes millions with salary employees that have their head up their ass. It is not that their stupid (all of them anyway) it is that with the corporate structure no one is willing to make a decision, for fear of losing their job I guess. Then you have the ones who think they know everything and won't listen to anyone. I guess some casino executive got a burr under his saddle about one of the players or one of the VIP players started whining about a Pro tournament player is how all this started. Maybe Griffin list did have something to do with barring of some of the players, who really knows. Some in Griffin are still allowed to play in certain tournaments as Dave mentioned. As far as Stardust the May tournaments was called "Come on Back" tournament it was designed to bring the players back and offer an additional tournament the weekend of the Hiltons MDII finals. Why they wouldn't allow the blacklisted players back in for another chance I don't know. That is their business and they have the right to refuse whom ever they want to. Do I think it is right? It is not for me to say, it isn't my business. If I owed it and I had 80 or more players wanting to pay the $350 entry and $600 buy-in each round would I let them play, in a heartbeat! To try and answer kelly_c_ritter question, I think it is up to each casino and their personal who plays and who dosen't in their tournaments. Griffin may have some input, but I think that is all.
Bradley -- You raise an interesting point, and one I have contemplated many times. Where is the boundary between Griffin being a legal service designed to give the casinos the information they need to make sound financial business decisions, and Griffin being an agent for illegal discrimination through the use of slander and damaging (and often fictitious) character assasination? I feel like we as counters are being unfairly treated (obviously) & it would seem are ripe as a demographic group for some class-action lawsuit if only the right lawyer would step forward. I don't think this is a question for an agent, but rather for an attorney! Yet there is this damn STIGMA that sours the situation. We are treated as if we are bank robbers, so if the cops violate our rights after the fact, well, its okay cuz we're bank robbers, after all. BS, man. So who knows an attorney that wants to step up? I'll sign the petition. Hook a brother up.
BJ and the Law OK guys. A reality check. First read up Blackjack and the Law by I. Nelson Rose and Robert A. Loeb. Then, remember that in Nevada the courts have not been known to side too often againsts the Casino industry or it's many agents, i.e. Griffins. The indiscriminate use of biometrics to catalogue and target counters is much more a pervasive issue in my opinon. In any event, outside of Nelson Rose, you could look up Ernest Franseschi, a lawyer from L.A. He personally is involved with a lawsuit against MGM Grand. "All the above without prejudice".
Makes me so glad that I gave up serious card counting in favor of video poker, poker, and tournaments 6 years ago. Screw you, Griffin!
