Changed my tune about ClubUBT

I posted this at the LVA forum as well so Joe Pane could read my comments. And I created a new thread here since there are two other threads which my comments below address, and I didn't want to duplicate this post or choose one thread over the other.

I've changed my tune about the Club a bit...not because I won the cruise last night, but because of a long conversation I just had with the Customer Service Manager (CSM) at the Club. I still thought the Club sucked after I won the cruise, however, now I have a much better feeling about it. Here are some issues the CSM and I spoke about:

. He agreed that the Club needs to do something about the difference in TPs awarded, and to how many players, between the poker and blackjack tournaments. From what I now understand, the payoffs were modeled on "live" poker and blackjack tournaments. In casinos, at blackjack tournaments, the majority of the prize pool goes to the final table. At poker, the prize pool is distributed to a larger number of players. The CSM, though, agreed that this model doesn't necessarily work on the Club. Having 73 out of 103 players in the cruise tournament lose 1000 (in many cases) hard-earned TPS, will not keep those players around for long. And having players actually lose 100 or 200 points while making the semi-final round, also did not make sense. So the Club is looking into making changes with respect the above two items, and one change may occur pretty soon.

. To the issue of players in a poker tournament simply sitting out every hand until they at least break even -- the Club will probably be changing that within a week or two, so that players will no longer be able to do that. That's how it is in blackjack -- after 5 hands, you're gone. And so it will be in poker, after a certain amount of hands.

. As to the matter of employees or "pros" playing on the site. The CSM and I tossed this one around a bit. His, and the Club's, point of view was that Club members want to have the experience of playing against an Annie Duke or Phil Hellmuth. And if they do, and the pro wins, the pro will donate their prize to charity. Fine, I understand that. What I told him was: Imagine Jane Doe making it to the final table of a tournament that cost her 1000 hard-earned TPs. She is now head-to-head with Annie Duke, and Annie wins. Does Jane Doe care whether Annie donates the prize to charity? She will probably tell her friends and other club members one of two things: 1- "A pro like Annie shouldn't have been playing. If I was up against someone else, I would have probably won that cruise (or $1,500, etc.)." 2- "The site is rigged! Of course they're going to give Annie a blackjack on the last hand. Why pay me $1,500 when they can simply donate the money to charity and get a write-off?"
The CSM agreed that either scenario would not be good for the club, nor would they want to create that perception among their club members. The "Beat the Pro" games, though, would allow members to compete against pros/employees, where those pros would not be eligible to win anything. It would be set up differently than a regular tournament in which a pro was entered.

. I sent an email to the Club last night, asking whether employees (and their families) of the Club or its affiliates, sponsors, etc., were eligible to play. The CSM who called me today was the one who also replied via email. He quoted from their "terms and conditions - section 2.7". It basically agreed with what I was saying all along. So do I feel that someone understood my point? Yes.

. I thought Joe Pane was an employee of the Club. With the way he ends many of his posts with (what seems like) Club PR, the way he promotes the Club, his wearing of ClubUBT clothing, etc., I thought (and I'm sure many others have as well) that he was a paid employee of the Club. Turns out, as Joe said in a recent post, that he's not. Joe did say he is an employee of the UBT. The CSM thought he was not. If it is as the CSM thought, then I believe Joe has every right to compete on the Club like any other paying member. If he is, as he states, an employee of the UBT, then according to section 2.7, he cannot play.

. Joe, my upset with you in a recent post was that you seemed to be ignoring my main points, as you did after Fred took on the bet you put before him about the bet21 bonuses. I do appreciate the time and effort you took in your most recent post addressed to me. While you still didn't answer all my points, that's fine. I got answers today from the CSM and the Director of Tour Operations at the Club (see below). Joe, as I told the CSM I would do: I sincerely, really sincerely, apologize for the way I've posted about you in my recent posts. You did not deserve that tone from me. Most of it came from my misunderstanding that you either worked for or truly represented the Club. I now know that you are neither an employee nor a representative. So I should have never addressed my concerns to you. The CSM and Tour Director are whom I should have gone to. Posting on message boards can sometimes really suck. A face-to-face meeting or a phone call can usually clear things up in minutes that take weeks to be miscommunicated about on a forum. Again, I apologize for anything I've posted that offended you or put you down.

. I also just received an answer to another nagging question. The cabins on the Carnival cruise in April have been pre-paid. So, I guess, my concern about whether the Club will be around in April to pay for the cruise, no longer applies. Kudos to them for prepaying for these cabins.

Bottom-line: The Club's communication these last 18 hours has been superb. My email about employees was responded to within a few business hours. An informational email about my cruise win also came within a few business hours. And the CSM, called me at least three times today, until he finally got a hold of me. We spent about 20-30 minutes on the phone, and he really listened to my feedback, suggestions, concerns and questions about the Club. That's all I expect communication-wise from the people and companies I do business with -- and will continue to do business with. So kudos to the Club on their communication and willingness to listen.

 

I'm very glad to hear this. I know Joe's very aggravated at me for stirring the pot so much, but every single time those rants were started because of the terrible communication between The Club / UBT and the rest of us. This is a shining example of how simple explanations without nasty surprises will do wonders to foster good public relations.

Congrats, Ted - and UBT, too! :celebrate

 

Excellent post Ted

I nominate that one for "Post of the Month" Award - any seconds?

Now for a real hard one Ted - can you call Bet21.com and find out about my deposit bonus? :laugh:

 

Before

Joep, correct me if Im wrong, said he wasnt an employee of UBT but then Hollywood posted on his blog he was and now we know he is control of the live tournaments. Personally I admire the fact Rick Jensen doesnt play in his tournaments-- its a hard call if any employee of UBT that isnt a team member should play. If you think the dealing of the cards is legitimate then I guess letting UBT employees play ClubUBT is OK. You will never erase the feelings of those black helicopters tho

 

Barney I'm confused by your post and can't find the HD blog you referred to, who does HD say is in charge of UBT live tournaments, Joep or HD? Actually I doubt either is "in charge" of UBT live tournaments, at least from my observation at the UBT events I've attended. No matter what HD publishes on his blogs which may be entertaining or time consuming if bored, I won't bet my frost machine if you that HD's blogs are either 100% factual or accurate. On another note although not secondary, Ted... my hats off to you.

 

From HD's Public Blog: I didn't want to make to much bad noise for the sake of the UBT's connection with them, but just like at the Venetian a few months ago (when UBT coordinator Joe Pane was escorted off the property during a UBT circuit event by overzealous security guards),

 

As to the matter of employees or "pros" playing on the site. The CSM and I tossed this one around a bit. His, and the Club's, point of view was that Club members want to have the experience of playing against an Annie Duke or Phil Hellmuth. And if they do, and the pro wins, the pro will donate their prize to charity. Fine, I understand that. What I told him was: Imagine Jane Doe making it to the final table of a tournament that cost her 1000 hard-earned TPs. She is now head-to-head with Annie Duke, and Annie wins. Does Jane Doe care whether Annie donates the prize to charity? She will probably tell her friends and other club members one of two things: 1- "A pro like Annie shouldn't have been playing. If I was up against someone else, I would have probably won that cruise (or $1,500, etc.)." 2- "The site is rigged! Of course they're going to give Annie a blackjack on the last hand. Why pay me $1,500 when they can simply donate the money to charity and get a write-off?"

From HD's Public Blog: "Lets see what else...I've been playing more frequently on ClubUBT online, and in about 15 hours there have made back half of what it costs to sign up for a year membership. Pretty amazing -- in a few more days I'll be on an 11 1/2 month freeroll, and with $100k being given away every month (soon to be even more!) you can bet i'll be sticking around to take advantage of that kinda sick +EV! There are a ton of smaller daily tourneys in both blackjack and poker, but once a week there's a $5k blackjack & poker tourney, and at the end of the month there's the big $10k. So for these few events alone, ClubUBT is more than worth its weight in gold... "

Doesn't sound like he is donating to anyones charity but his own.

 

Joep's reply to me on LVA forum

I got permission from Joe Pane to post his reply here, to my initial post in this thread. I think this goes a long way to mending some fences...at least it does for me.

Ted I'm extremely happy that you have said these words to me.

I was never comfortable with the mood of our recent post to each other. Even though we have only met in person one time during the Venetian UBT Tournament the brief time that we did spend together chatting was enjoyable to me. I have enjoyed playing against you on Bet 21 as you are a tough opponent to beat. There is no walk in the park playing against you. But as of late we have been both guilty of the cold shoulder treatment to each other and it was wrong on both of our parts. So your apology is something I full accept and if I have done something to slight you I apologize.

I watched the final few hands of your tournament last night and believe it or not I was rooting for you to win, I thought that would be good for you, the Club and kind of ironic.

Your last bet was text book as you held back for the push and had the surrender option also. Great bet and one that I had in my head as I watched.

I'm glad we have cleared this up, and I look forward to resuming out internet friendship that we have had over the last year.

See you on the cruise in April and once again congratulations on a job well done. You are true gentlemen.

Joep