It is my contention that there aren't enough EBJ tournaments over at The Club. I have read that the "management" believes there are more poker players there than BJ players. Nevertheless whenever I log on and look at the player count at the bottom of the screen the numbers "seem" very close. So, for those of you who have played or do play at Club UBT please let me know:
I hate to admit it Fred but look at the last 2 cruise tournaments or even the $1000 or $5000 they have around 2:1 players signing onto the Poker version of each, The poker cruise tournament was a sell out so may well have taken another 50 players if it was not limited. Will be interesting to see tonights poker Cruise tournament, as we both know Fridays is always a quiet night online
I was told The told by a person in the BJT Web industry there are about 125K total BJT players in the world and up to 12 million poker players in the USA! I dont know if thats true but the player supply is for sure in the poker world. Ignoring what you see on the player list at CUBT I think its and easily accepted fact poker is the real potential cash cow for CUBT and EBJ is a side show looking to grow off poker. BTW, if you noticed poor little "Joescrabshack" isnt on LAV.com any more its because he was booted for saying CUBT is a "Chuck E Cheese Club" like venture:laugh: Just a little joke of course:laugh: In a way it is, you win "tickets" and cash them in for prizes while having fun doing it.
Why do you think that is Mace? My take on it is this: TIME = PERCEIVED VALUE Now there are several all-in poker players (whome will remain nameless ) but for the most part when playing poker online it takes hours - emphasis on the "s" EBJ on the other hand - even for the conservative players, can be over on hand 8! So for the newer EBJ players - who have a limited amount of points - where do you think they would spend them? The whole concept of UBT is to build up EBJ is it not? How can people play/taste/sample a product when there isn't enough of it? The Barona satellites are a joke. I mean with 6 in a row every 15 minutes I found myself falling into the trap of all in because if I bust I've got another in 15 minutes. If UBT had so much confidence and faith in their product I would recommend they have less Barona freerolls and MORE UBT point matches.
I think the monthly fee should increased to $200 and have less but higher prize fund tourneys to make it more worth playing. Winner-take-all $10, 20 50, 100 tourneys are just a waste of time.
That may allow for a small part of it Fred, But if you play EBJ like us then your always going to have the once in a blue moon dropping out at 1st elimination on 1st round, Then again most the $10,$20 aand $50 ones i play, by the 1st Elimination hand I'm usually already sitting waiting for round 2 to start, Due to the sudden loss of so many all in clowns:joker: I prefer EBJ and would not miss an EBJ cruise tournament entry, but again last night i unregistered from the Poker one and had an early night, Would never do that with an EBJ as Know i have much more chance of winning so works both ways. Last night the Poker Cruise tour, bearing in mind Fridays is usually a quiet night online(going by UB in the past) still had 173 entrys compared to 80 odd on last saturdays Cruise equivlent. Am just posting new dates for next tournaments but are: Win a Cruise TournamentTue 09/04 9:30PM EST at ClubUBT.com. Win a Cruise TournamentTue 09/11 9:30PM EST at ClubUBT.com. Win a Cruise TournamentSat 09/22 9:30PM EST at ClubUBT.com. Win a Cruise TournamentSat 09/29 9:30PM EST at ClubUBT.com. I agree would be nice if they also stated what type each one was! But will guess one on 4th Sept will be cruise, but is only a guess so don't shoot me if I'm Wrong
The numbers don't lie in poker vs BJ Mace, until you, Joe, and the people running the show at ClubUBlackjackT understand everything I bring up below, the club will never succeed as a place to play quality blackjack tournaments: As you said, last night’s poker cruise tournament had 173 players – with 100 players getting paid. That’s 58%. If this had been a blackjack cruise tournament with 173 players, guess what percentage of players would be paid? 50%?...not even close 40%?...still not close 30%?...still not getting warm 20%?...nope 15%?...nope How about fewer than 14%?!?! -- just 24 players! Here’s how I attained this percentage: Round 1: 173 players, 25 tables, 2 per table advance Round 2: 50 players, 8 tables, 3 per table advance Round 3: 24 players, 4 tables, 3 per table advance <<<quarter-finals, so 24 players get paid Round 4: 12 players, 2 tables, 3 per table advance <<<semi-finals so 12 players get paid a little bit more Round 5: 6 players, 1 table, 1 player wins cruise, the other 5 players get paid a little bit more So why do more than 4 times as many poker players retain their 750 chips than blackjack players? And this is even more difficult to understand since it’s so much harder for bj players to attain TPs in the first place. Compare the TP breakdown in the poker tournament last night with a similar BJ tournament: Poker: 173 players 129,750 TPs paid by players to enter 79,500 TPs won back by players 50,250 TPs net loss by players (average loss of 290 per player) Blackjack: 173 players 129,750 paid by players to enter 21,400 TPs won back by players 108,350 TPs net loss by players (average loss of 626 per player) Need I say more? A more equitable solution would be to give back the 750TP entry fee to those who advance in round 1. In the above scenario, that would be 50 players. Even better, how about having 3 per table advance in round 1 above, and pay 75 players. Or better yet, have 4 per table advance in round 1, and pay 100 players! Can’t do that? Why not? It’s being done in poker! And guess what? The tournament can still be completed in 5 rounds with 4 per table advancing in round 1!!! One last thing to remember, Mace, since you’ve shared this with us. When you play a big poker tournament, you basically sit out the first half-hour to hour of play. You do this, because with the blinds being so low during that time, you’ll still have about 750 chips left by not betting a single hand. In the interim, enough players have lost all their chips, putting you in the top 100, guaranteeing that, at the very minimum, you get your initial 750 TP buy-in back. So, this is a no-risk tournament for an advantage player like yourself. Try doing this in a blackjack tournament! Oh, you can’t! So why reward a non-player in the poker scenario above, but penalize a decent blackjack player who advances in round 1, but loses his 750 TPs because they didn’t advance any further? They showed more skill than you do in the initial play at poker, yet they lose 750TPs! Nothing you nor anyone else will say will change my mind about the above numbers and facts. There is simply NO EXCUSE to reward four times as many poker players as blackjack players in a cruise tournament. There is simply NO EXCUSE to remove 626 TPs for the average blackjack player in a cruise tournament, when the club only takes out 290 TPs for the privilege of playing on the poker side of the cruise tournament. The “satellite” tournament argument doesn’t hold water in this situation since they’re equally run for both poker and bj tournaments. The past excuses that there are more poker players on the site right now is not an excuse in this situation. In fact, the above numbers and facts prove that there will always be more poker players, because even bj players like ourselves realize that the only value at the site is poker. What a shame!
Ted, I think the point is that there are never 173 people in a BJ tournament. If you use the actual number that register for each tournament, my guess is that the % of TPs returned are pretty similar. I now that for Poker, it's very hard to get 2x your TPs returned.
Getting 2x your points may be difficult. However with poker getting back your initial outlay is very easy. Just "set it and forget it". Sign up and check back in 30-45 minutes. How "skillful" is that? In addition different BJT have different payout schedules. For example I noticed the following: 10 TP buy in pays 75 for semi-finals 50 TP buy in pays 75 for semi-finals
look at the numbers Toonces, I don't really understand your comment about 2x TP returned. As to the first part of your post: There are never 173 players in a BJ tournament for a number of reasons: . There aren't 173 strictly BJ players who have or can afford to lose 750 TPs. . Club members can easily see that the odds in a BJ tournament favor them losing those 750TPs. . The club may not even have 173 decent BJ players to begin with. The percentage of TPs returned in major BJ tournaments is NEVER close to that of poker, regardless of number of entries due to the way the club has set up the payback. If the club is awarding TPs starting at the quarter-final level, anytime there are more than 70 players in a tournament, the greater majority will lose their buy-in. For example: With 71 players, there has to be 4 rounds. Thus, all those eliminated in round 1 lose TPs. And unless the club decides to advance 4 players per table in round 1 (which they don't with over 70 players), then the best possibility is that 46% of the players get their entry fee back. And that's the BEST possibility. In poker, 50% getting their entry fee is the LEAST possible payback. The most likely scenario with 71 players in a BJ tournament is that 34% will get TPs back. Round 1 would have 12 tables with two advancing per table for a total of 24 of 71 players.
There is one other factor that no one has mentioned: 1. The likely probability that when you play on the EBJT you won't be playing for very long. That was my wife's biggest complaint when she first learned to play EBJ. "How come I only get to play 8 of the 30 hands?" When you've got a limited number of points and there is a strong possibility of losing them within 5 minutes don't you think that there are many players who "shy" away from playing in the EBJT? Tonight was a perfect example of that for me personally. On an elimination hand I held enough chips back for a DD to cover my cards. Instead I hit the hit button and revealed the cards to the other players. Instead of continuing to his I stood. It was a dumb rookie mistake and it cost me as I got eliminated. In fact the other experienced players where probably scratching their heads at that bone headed play of mine. How many players who will be new to Club UBT will likely do similar things? The points for BJT need to be "loosened up" or newer members will gravitate to the poker side in order to get points and shun the EBJ.
From a Business standpoint they just want members and they don't care what they play as long as the membership fees are paid.
Of course. In fact they (Club UBT) could care less if you play at all - only that you pay your monthly fees. The point is simply this: You get 2 weeks to try it out - good idea In those 2 weeks if the average Jane/Joe Doe doesn't win something or show an improvement in their point total do you thing they will really renew? Poker players are who Club UBT is targeting. Players such as you pokernut. So here's the 1,000,000.00 questtion what is the likelyhood of YOU paying 19.99 a month to play on The Club?
I am in a trail period now and I will probably not go to a paying membership. I have accumulated about 3,000 points in about 5 days but it just is not worth all the time it takes chasing points. I don't need headphones, a fireplace, etc. I pay my bills at the poker rooms and I cannot be on-line trying to win a rubber boat and be in a casino. I have noticed some people playing in every event all day long, evidently they don't have a life.
