Clububt have taken our suggestions and acted on them again, Now on website they are showing rankings based on cash value winnings congrats to the following: [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Top Winners[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Winnings (cash value) [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]phbob200[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$9,438.00[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]zweeky[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$6,599.37 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]killsclown[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$6,515.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deano43[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$6,465.69 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beautiful007[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$5,975.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ElderlyEskimo[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$5,255.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HandSpanStan[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$5,155.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]cosmo2020[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$5,030.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]morecowbe11[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$5,000.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Docs4paws[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$4,910.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]11[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]RJK1027[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$3,919.00 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]lucky louie[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$3,698.26 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]13[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]travelnet[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$3,114.70 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]cheyennex[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$3,089.94 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cyn-R[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$3,019.27 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]16[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kamisama[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$2,959.99 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]17[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ltlbirdy[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$2,864.98 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]18[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]OneShotWonder[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$2,758.84 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]19[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]pinklady[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$2,729.99 [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Todechiney31[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$2,655.00 [/FONT]
SURE they did LeftNut - Remember that winning seat from Club UBT is worth a final table appearance - so it's either worth 1,000,000 - OR ZERO! Unless of course there is a pre-arranged CHOP - but then it wouldn't be a GUARANTEED Million Dollar First Place then would it? Actually once the Barona TOC is held and the officials made public I would image that the winner of that free seat to the final table would find their way up to the number 1 spot - unless something ELSE happens. BTW Mace, where did you see the rankings?
The Barona seat was the most valuable prize given on ClubUBT: airfare + accomodation + 1000000/7 Fred, if you valued this at ZERO then a cruise package with a $235 entry fee should also be valued at ZERO? And it wouldn't make much sense if money that will be won in April on the boat by club members is added to the list. Obviously, they just chose to exclude the Barona prize from the list for whatever reason.
The final value of the Barona seat remains to been seen. One can't really quote the EV of that seat, one would need to wait and find out the actual cash won. In about 3 weeks, we'll know exactly what it was worth. I know some dude who picked off $20K from a UBT online seat. Also know a lady who took $9K from one. Plus the value of air and hotel, of course. Evidently those winnings don't count. Of course, they are both barred from joining the Club, so perhaps one must be a member!
Z, I admit I forgot about the airfare & accomodations. I DO AGREE with you that so far the final seat awarded by ClubUBT was their biggest prize to date. Final value of seat would be: airfare & accomodations plus TBD - is that fair enough? I think that saying the EV of that seat being $142,857 (1 million/7) would be false advertising since in all reality this TOC "could" be a winner take all event - in which case the internet winner would receive a cash prize of zero. How would you like to get a 1099 for an estimated cash value of $142,857 and walk away with nothing? The cruise package is worth the value of an inside cabin for 2, plus the $235 entry fees - heck the cruise package(s) are an excellent +EV and I hope you have a great time - hopefully I will see you there!
Thanks for your replies, My point is this: whether you win 500$ in cash or a 500$ entry fee for a live tournament, it has the same value: $500. The live tournament is not a ClubUBT tournament, so for me, it does not make sense to reassign the value won on the Club at $0 if you lose in the first round of the live tournament. The value of your Club winnings would still be $500. The cruise tournament is exactly the same thing, if I lose the first round on the boat, should $235 be subtracted from my Club winnings? Hope to see you there too!
To look at it another way is to ask how much you could sell that final table seat for, if i said $50k you would join a queue, $100k and am sure a couple of pro's would be tempted, But i am pretty confident it is not going to be a winner takes all event, Joe has estimated at $1.25m over at LVA and I have heard similar figures so price of that seat on the night
Z - I understand you point and I wouldn't have a problem with someone valuing the seat at a "minimum" of 10K - the entry fee. However this tourney is unlike others in that it will essentially be a winner take all. Normally you can take the payout of the event and have it awarded to the final table players. Mace - I WISH I could share your optimism. However there are several things that you neglected: 1. In the previous $1 million Barona tourney's (invited players) did they chop the final table? (I don't know and I'm asking to see if anyone does know - but my GUT feeling is NO they didn't chop) 2. Estimating the final value at 1.25 - once again overly optimistic. Look at how many players were willing to fork out the 2.5K for the Hilton million $ qualifiers. Joe hit the nail on the head in his prior post about BJ players looking for the +Ev 3. So you've give ME 100,000 for a final seat at the Barona event? Is that right? If so PM me and I'll see what I can arrange ok?
If you bomb out value is ZERO If you bomb out of a tourney the monetary value is zero. The potential value is zero. This is why to say something has a 1000000/7=x is worthless until the tournament is over or until you sell the seat before the tourney takes place. This is why assigning a value of 1000000/7=x is fuzzy math. :joker: I wonder, what would someone pay for a seat? I guess we will never know tho!
Barney - that line of reasoning is fuzzy also. Sure if you don't reach the final table your take on the tourney is negative (unless you were comp'd into the event in the first place) The value of the Club UBT seat that was awarded DOES have value - in fact it is their most valuable prize to date. HOWEVER The exact value is YET to be determined. As Zweekly correctly pointed out to me so far the winner of that seat has: Transportation to San Diego Accomadations at Barona A seat at the final table - so they get to "bypass" the $10,000 entry fee that your or I would have to pay. Now if that internet winner pulls down first place he will be 1,000,000 richer and I will be 100.00 poorer to Ken Smith However I have the "sneaky" suspecion that a deal will be arranged so that all players at the final table leave that room with a cashiers check in each of their pockets. If that were the case I would also suspect that a non-disclosure statement would have to be signed and strictly enforced so that the winner can be said to have won $1,000,000 for first place. Failure to abide by the terms of the disclosure could/should result in the players forfeiture of their prize winnings. But what do I know? :joker:
I agree, for the most part, the TOC seat winner has gained value in the guaranteed travel and board expense excluding other expenses during the trip. But, the EV is an expectation value or a theoretical value. To say the winner of the seat has actual value of 1000000/7=142857 is not true. I think thats what you are saying as well! That simple equation is theoretical and is not purely accurate unless you sell the seat for 142857 before the game. Any numbers given in EV are in theory. The actual event will prove the value at zero up to 1000000. What Im saying is the Club is accurate to not assign the TOC seat winner as top prize winner because the value is still fuzzy!
I wouldn't necessarily use fuzzy to describe it - unless you wanna fight with Mace :laugh: How about "as yet undetermined"? Whatever the final value of that seat - it's a great prize and I wish it had been me!
Without a doubt the TOC final table seat is the BEST prize given! No VooDoo about it! BTW Zweeky congrats on your sucess! It beats the hell out of my 2 hundred and Fity $. BTW, where is my check ClubUBT? lol
Oh, no, don't start that again! IMHO, that's exactly where it is right now. The value of the airfare and room can be quantified, but it'll be those plus the actual cash realized that will give the final value. It's a great prize, indeed - and it almost was me!!! :cry:
Well, if ClubUBT ever gives away seats to the WSOP main event, I would consider that a $10,000 prize (plus travel expenses) regardless of whether the person placed in the WSOP. This case is different though, as the final table seat has no actual cash value (since it cannot be purchased), even if it has an expected value. So it would make sense to wait until after the tournament to assign a prize value.
