Comparison: Palms vs $10K

Has anyone figure out

the cost percentage of the Barona events?

 

As usual

Ken, a very interesting comparison. I would never have looked at it like that. What figure would you say is a reasonable cost in real terms, just out of interest?

Cheers

Reachy

 

I think 10%?

I believe the $250 Barona event has a $25 house fee = 10%. Very reasonable, I'm not sure if they take out 3% for tips, but even if they do that is still reasonable with close to 400 players to take care of so many dealers.

Max's is a good guy and he takes very good care of his players and his dealers.

 

good point

As we can see Laughlin option is about 4 times better (percentagewise), not mentioning possible free room for two nights.
About the absolute dollar amount:
I think that the dealers should get at least $3,000 of that $10,000 Fee, and that will bring the absolute dollar amount way lower. Farthermore, dispite only 16 entrants, the format is really time consuming and there is high responsibility, conserning huge entree fees.
Other than that I wouldn't worry about money in somebody elses pocket and will decide to play or not based on my own criterias. In other words, regardless who makes money and how much, I'm gonna play if the return is acceptable to me. After all we are not communists.

 

Actually just a bit lower...

The amount the dealers would be getting for this event was $2,500 = 1.5625%. Based on a full bracket of 16 players.

I think those who want to play in this event and the TBJPA/TBT event later that weekend will have a good time, just like we did in May.

I hope this $10,000 one on one entry event happens, but if it doesn't at least I tried.

 

Im starting

To get worried this thing will ruin the special thing we all experienced during our May game at River Palms. :sad: At first I wanted it to succeed to bring notoriety to the TBJPA, but now it feels wrong. :sad:

On the other hand Im in a couple fast moving nat gas stocks today and Im feeling really happy:celebrate

 

Ken, great numbers. Another comparison you may want to run is against the $10,000 event the UBT is running this winter @ Barona, specifically the house vig: $300. I just got off the phone with Tour Director Bonnie Leinhos, who confirmed that this fee is set in stone. Which begs the obvious question: if an event of this size, promotion, and prizepool (a million bucks guarenteed for 1st place) can run on 3%, what could Rick possibly need over double that for in an event that pales in scope, both in players/prizepool and promotion?

I think its important to realize that the higher the buy-in, the lower the percentage should be taken out for fees. That's why its difficult to compare a $2500 event with a $10,000 event; one might as well compare a $2500 event with a $500 event, or a $500 event with a $100 event. Obviously, the best comparison should come against other events with the same buy-in.

Poker players have always been used to this phenomenon, as it is common knowledge that the higher buy-in events have the lowest house % taken out. its typical to see fees of up to 25% in the lower events, but as the buy-ins increase, the house vig takes a steep dive. Perhaps the best example is the biggest, richest tournament of all: the World Series of Poker Main Event, which last year drew nearly 9000 players. Let's look at what Harrah's discloses about the fees taken out of this year's event:

"4.2% of the total entry pool will be withheld for entry fees, and 1.8% of the total entry pool will be withheld for tournament staff."

Here we see 6% in fees for a $10,000 event. Although comparable to Rick's fees, two glaring differences are readily apparent: 1. full disclosure as to the exact distribution of the house vig, and 2. the fact that this is by far the largest, most difficult to put on, & well attended tournament in the history of gambling, and Harrah's still manages to keep its costs to only 6% given the absolutely mind-boggling level of coordination and cross promotion this event demands.

Anyone still think paying 6.25% for a 16-person, no promotion/zero overhead $10k event to a con man who refuses to even disclose where these fees are going is even close to making any kind of sense? if so, i've got a bridge in Vegas to sell you.

Unfortunatley, what could have been a really great event for the everyone has now been hijacked by a greedy & exploitive promoter only out for his own good. His lack of ethics & shameless underhanded tactics reveal a character that truly disturb me & truly hurt our community --

-hd.

ps i see in hindsight (since the previous few posts went up while i was typing this long reply) that after days of requests, Rick has FINALLY revealed the 1.5% dealer gratuities. Now he's just hiding the amount the host casino is actually holding back for their own fees. Not that any of this matters; as my post makes abundantly clear, the 6.25% fee on this event alone is still double what it should be & serves no other purpose than to line the pockets of a scam artist.

 

Give it a REST for once...

You need to read my Post from earlier this AM, if you already haven't! Why do YOU persist in your destructive and libelous rhetoric?

Give it up Davey and try to "Rain on someone else's Parade" Davey! Far from here hopefully...

The "Real Bad Boy of Blackjack"

Skipper

 

Inexcusable

using the word "con man" If you dont like the fee fine but to call this man a "con man" is a harsh personal attack and deserves 3 days in the hole at least, JMO.

 

Huh?

I just read two post above: The amount the dealers would be getting for this event was $2,500 = 1.5625%. Based on a full bracket of 16 players.

The remainder of fees = 7,500 for staff/casino/promoter, etc.

Think about what you're saying HD. I don't think that Mike Tyson would say, "I ain't fighting Leon Spinks because Don King's making too much money."

From the beginning the costs were posted - 6.25%.

This is really a 9,365+625 event. That is the the way it should have been presented. The fees are between the promotor,casino, dealers, etc.

Has the prize pool money diminished? NO

The format has actually been enhanced and I would seriously doubt than any "lucky" SOB would win this event. To take home the brass ring whomever it is has to win lots of matches and with this level of entry fee the pressure would be enormous.

I'm sad to see that you feel the need to stoop to name calling and exploiting people about this event. So I guess that anyone who plays in this is an idiot?

No, the shame is that "pro players", feel the need to hijack players from real events where real money is on the line and not "company sponsored" events or high ended freerolls for the BJ 'elite'". When it comes to put up or shut I guess we know where YOU stand on this one.

 

Horrible analogy. Mike Tyson doesn't pay Don King a dime out of his own pocket. In fact, Tyson makes money in any event he plays, win or lose. Don King makes his money setting up the event & getting a cut of whatever money is raised through sponsorships/endorsements.

Its just a matter of the relative value of an event, as Ken tried to illustrate earlier in this thread. Apparently, you think paying double in fees than you would for another one with 10x the prizepool and 100x the promotion is ok. What if the fees he is withholding were $20,000? $30,000? You can't just say that because he is throwing it, players should support it. Or that by my refusal to play while being so obviously exploited, I am not "putting up." That's ridiculous.

There's a point where a promoter has every right to make a profit, and a point where he is just throwing an event to make money off of suckers he can make a quick buck off of. Apparently, you're one of those suckers, while anyone who looks at the true value of this event can plainly see they're being ripped off, given the lack of overhead and comparable poker/blackjack tourneys who run events that dwarf this one in size yet for half the money.

If you continue to argue with me, I'll just invent my own scam tournament with a $1000 entry and take out $500 in fees, then call you chicken when you don't play it or call me a con man just out to make money. If you love Rick's scam tournament so much, then by all means play in it. Oh wait i forgot, you (like most of the other people who seem to think this is a 'good idea' AREN'T EVEN CONSIDERING PLAYING AT ALL. ?!??!?!???

"Put up or shut up," Fred.

-hd.

 

Shut up!!!!

I'm so pissed off right now, I just want to get you all and knock your heads together. Now go to your rooms and think about what you have done. You can come out when you are sorry. Of course I don't mean you Ken, but you've got to finish your dinner and that includes ALL the vegetables.

Reachy

 

Ah Dave - I hate to tell you this but I have considered playing in this event. Once I get the notice from Dan my deposit check will be in the mail - want me to put a copy here too?

Why you ask?

Simple. I usually sky dive from my home drop zone. I pay X amount per jump. Occassionaly they do something different like:

jumping from 22,000 (oxygen required 3X/jump)
night jumps (lights and strobes required 2X/jump)
helicopter jumps (3X /jump)
or even Different planes rather than the twin otter (1.5X/jump)

These opportunities don't come up very often and when given the chance I jump at these events. Does it cost more? Yup. Have I ever been disappointed ? Nope

This 1-1 format is unique for me. I'm not a pro like you.. I'm a non professional recreational player (NPRP) and when given the opportunity to test my nascent skills against experienced players why not?

Unlike you, I don't get invited to play in tournaments all over the place - for FREE. Whenever I play in a land event (or online for that matter) I put my money where my mouth is. I play for the love of the game, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.

I didn't get invited to the WSOB to "try out". I paid $500 in airfare and the 2,000 and 1,000 for the chance to test my skills. I as bested by you on the first day and Rick on the 2nd day.

BUT I TRIED - I PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS

Remember the 500.00 SNG at the Venetian in which we played? Once again I wanted to test my skills against you, Ace, World BJ Champion and others. All I could manage was 2nd place.

Do I kid around a lot? YES Do I post funny photos? YES (well at least I think they're funny). But at the end of the day -

I FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK BECAUSE I PUT UP.

Nuff said - Cya in Laughlin

 

What OTHER ONE? When was the last time there was an event like this? I don't see too many 1-1 tournaments last time I looked.

If the fees were 20 or 30K that would be a different story but the fees AREN'T that. The fees are 10K - always have been from the beginning when you said, "I'll be there"

Every promoter has a right to make a profit - at least we agree on something. So who are you to say how much of a profit is too much? Gestopo? Socialist? Communist? If you think the promoter is making too much money don't play.
Personally I look at the whole event this way - all i have to do is play better than 12 other players and it's a positive value event for me.

But to use the vitriole and denegrate other players? To claim that there is no event? Now now enjoy the three days - it goes quickly I know:laugh:

 

If I'm not mistaken, there was a player from Washington State (the Ironhorse?) who went straight to a final table. (Will that player whom I believe is a member of this board please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Now for the TOC at the Barona, a winner of the ClubUBT will go straight to the final table, or will it be just a seat at the TOC event?

 

orca;

the gentleman from wa. state, who went to the palms, from the iron horse casino, was david marsh. i do not believe that he is a member of this site (play against him in live tourneys 4 times a week). he, did not go directly to the final table, but, won his way, to the finals, and took fifth. there was an individual that won their way to the finals via, ubt. do not remember the name.

hope that helps.

 

I'm sorry to have been mistaken. For some reason I thought he was seated directly at the Palms Final table where he took 5th place because he won the satellite sessions he played at the Ironhorse . So essentially, part of what he won at the Ironhorse was the $2500 entry fee to the Palms event where he still had to compete to get to the taped Final table?