Question. Four players at the table. Dealer has a 4 showing. First two players stand the third player splits a pair......and THEN.... the dealer forgets the fourth player with a 13 hand and turns up his hole card revealing a 5 for a total of 9. The fourth player wants his option to play. Dealer calls the pit bosses and they decide he gets his option to act and the fourth player takes his hits and busted with a small wager. (playing against an obvious 9). Other players thought it was unfair but had decent hands with big bets out and were reluctant to give up their hands. After the round was over the losers were upset and calling fault, saying it changed the outcome of the game and the real thing to do was to take back all bets and redeal the hands. I say the pit decision is all that matters. Who else has seen this happen?
Tournament rules usually cover how to handle dealer errors. Whether the decision was right or wrong depends on those rules.
No doubt Just wanted to hear from everyone on the matter, has anyone seen this error and how did they handle it? TIA
Not Me I haven't seen this exact situation but as toolman1 indicates the printed rules should tell you how resolved. In most cases the dealer calls "floor person" over to handle it and the next step is the tournament director. Billy C
I have seen this happen many times in cash and tournament games. The players have always been able to take advantage of the situation whether fair or not. In tournaments the player can choose to hit on anything, even 21 so they never assume that they would not hit a busting hand vs a busting card. If I had a small bet with a bad hand and everyone else had a big bet, in this situation, I would not have hit and hope the dealer would make his hand. In that case the exposure would not have caused any complaints. I would much rather be lucky than good but both is better!!!
(Sorry for the shotgun post. Treat this like three posts in one.) I'll make a guess that the player who was forgotten was sitting at first base, and the button was probably on seat two. This is probably the most common dealer error in tournament blackjack. Unless the tournament rules are very clear about this situation, the floor must make a decision in a difficult spot. I personally like the UBT rule for this situation. Any inadvertently exposed card is discarded and replaced. In this example, the dealer's hole card would be burned, and replaced with another card from the shoe. Then the final player could play out his hand as he chooses and only then would the dealer reveal his NEW hole card. To me, this seems like the most fair rule. My article for the December Blackjack Insider will cover a situation similar to this, where the floorperson came up with a really bizarre way to handle it. Imagine this scenario: "Sir, you can either stand with your hand, or you can call everyone's hand dead and start the whole hand over." Yep, bizarre. Players shouldn't ever be allowed to make a decision like that. It created an interesting strategy question though. See Dec's BJI for the whole story. Now, a question... If you're seated in seat one, where you know there is an increased chance of dealer errors favorably impacting you, do you make an extra large bet when the button is on seat two? An admission: I have increased my bet size in this situation and have profited on a handful of occasions. Is this ethical? My take on the situation is that this is part of the game, and exploiting it is fair. You aren't doing anything to encourage a dealer error, but positioning yourself for maximum value if it happens.
you are correct Ken, you are exactly correct. The button was at second base, the overlooked player was at first base. In this case the decision did not change much either way. I like your answer of replacing the hole card and continuing play, that is exactly fair to everyone at the table. As for ethical play in a tournament, I've seen it all. If a dealer pays you and he shouldn't is it unethical of you to not say anything? Every player has to watch out for himself and watch the payouts....dealers make mistakes every day. It caused high drama and hard feelings, which, were petty in this case. Thanks to everyone for their input here on this issue and for players faced with this in the future you now know the best answer to suggest to the floor if they do not know what to do.....replace the hole card and continue.
Exploiting? Once I was sitting in spot 1 in a pitch tournament and had a dealer whose technique was a bit awkward. On the first hand the button was on spot 2. After the cards were dealt I thought the dealer had made a mistake and said, "Wait a minute!" After we talked it out with the floor and once everyone was satisfied no mistake had been made, play resumed. After a round of hands, when the button was again on spot 2, I said, "ah!" before the dealer dealt me my second card. He paused and then dealt it to himself. When the floor came over to resolve it I was given the decision whether or not I wanted that card. The next time the button was on spot 2 I bet the max. This time I didn't do anything unusual. This time the dealer skipped me when it was my turn to make a playing decision, turned over his second card, and took a hit. The card would've turned my stiff hand into a total of 20. It gave him a pat hand. I stopped play. The floor decided I could have that card if I wanted or let the dealer keep it. Well, the card would've beaten me if the dealer kept it, so indeed I wanted it and I doubled down for the the max. I figured I got myself a three max bet swing. Lucky me, the dealer drew out to a three card 21. :flame: That's what I get for being such a wise guy. Was I out of bounds? If I had been one of my opponents I would've been bellyaching big time about the floor's decisions, especially if the big hard double had paid off.
In my own tournament play, I choose to point out pay errors by the dealer, whether to my spot or an opponent's, and whether they are underpaid or overpaid. I have no problem with others who have a different opinion about that though. I've experienced much the same whenever I make a "wise guy" play. Karma I guess.
ouch You guys are funny but this has become an informative and entertaining thread. Thank you everyone for your input here. Smitty
What if one of the other players is paid for his bj, another splits and busts both hands, a third surrenders? Then the dealer replaces his hole card with an ace for his own bj. The dealer then must remember the exact wagers to refund/remove the original amounts.
At that point I think the floorperson runs from the room screaming. I know this discussion came up about this rule. I think the final decision was that if the dealer didn't have a blackjack when he peeked earlier, he wouldn't be allowed to have a blackjack after the new hole card either. He can either peek immediately when he replaces it, or just replace it again when it is revealed as a not-allowed blackjack.
