Did I Play this right???

Last hand, 3 people left and 2 advance. BR1 is way out of reach. I am BR2 with 34,000. BR3 has 20,000. I have a secret bet. I bet before BR3 and secret bet 6500 to cover BR2 doubling his bankroll and keep the low on him. He bets all 20,000 which is what I expected. Of course dealer shows 6, he gets a 20 and I get 2,2. Just my luck. I chose to split because I still keep the low (not that that really matters he has 20) and I think I'm better off splitting the 2s. Heres the tricky part. I get another freakin 2!!! Now do I give up the low and split them or just keep the two hands and make what I can? I chose to split again and try to get something better and give up the low. I wouldnt have done it if he would have had 18 or less and not sure if I would have if he had 19. I got a nine on one of the 2s and doubled. The other 2 ended up being stiffs. Of course the dealer makes 18. I win my doubled hand and lost the other 2. Ended with the same 34,000 and of course he doubles his br and squeezes in. Seems like crap like this always happens to me. Just wandering if I played it right I think I did. Also, should I give up the low if he has 19 instead of 20? I would think so, but not with 18.
Would anyone have played this different?

Thanks,
Rounder21

 

You NEVER split twos in tbj/ebj - you were just as well off to play the hand without splitting

 

I see, thanks...

I shouldnt have split them in the first place. My hand would have ended at 15, not sure what would have happened then. Maybe dealer busts and I win. I just thought basic strategy would have at least been right until I give up the low, but I was wrong on both counts.

Thanks for the help,
Rounder21

 

ROunder

you actually didn't play the hand badly, under the circumstances - given that it was a final hand - but there are a lot of basic strategy plays that shouldn't be used in tbj, or used very rarely - splitting twos, in my opinion, is one of them - I would have just hit until I went to 12 or higher, then stood - your odds of winning would have been over 50% -

 

Close call

Result for hitting the 2's and standing with soft total of 18 or higher or standing with a hard total of 12 or higher (best play when not splitting) = 68.41%
Result for splitting and hitting each hand and standing with soft 18 or higher or standing with hard 12 or higher = 64.68%

I don't know about resplitting or doubling after splitting.


..........................BlueLight

 

hey, I got one right

thanks for the probs, Bluelight

this illustrates why bs is not always a good guide to hand play for tbj - it makes sense to split from an ev perspective - but - it reduces your chance of winning - and in tbj - winning - in this situation - is what it is about

 

Thanks for the numbers...

It's good to know. It makes sense the more I think about it. With him having the 20, standing on a stiff makes sense because the best way for both to win would be dealer bust. And splitting 2s into 2 hands would be no better than one hand totalling 4 when I need the win it makes sense to hit. Splitting the first time was bad, but not so bad because I still didnt give up the low. Splitting the 2nd time was foolish and hitting a stiff would be foolish as well. I would think when push is as good as win you should always split when basic calls for it though (unless youre giving up the low)???

Thanks,
Rounder21

 

Would it be safe to say...

Splitting NEVER helps you win more (except for maybe aces and 8s), but it can help you push more sometimes reducing your loss??? And this is why basic calls for splitting sometimes, not for increasing wins, but reducing losses by increasing the possibility of a push, 1 hand winning and 1 losing???

Thanks,
Rounder21

 

many splits

are 'defensive' plays - like you are talking about - they either increase ev by reducing your chances of losing and winning - but increasing your chances of pushing, or they give only a very small increase in ev - you lose more often, and win less, but win just enough to edge the ev up because you have more money on the table -

in tbj - I split Aces against 2-6, 8s aghainst 2-8, 7s against 5 & 6, and 6s against 6 - these are the only splits I think increase your ev enough and maintain enough of a chance of winning both hands - to be worth doing - all these splits increase ev by +0.32 or better

 

Thanks for the help...

This is something for me to think about. I would have thought not splitting aces against 7 or higher would be detrimental to EV. But less than a .32 difference hmm. I guess its because you only get 1 card per ace. And you can work with a hand that can be 2 or 12 so its not so bad. I will definately consider this when I have a high bet out.

Thanks,
Rounder21

 

Rounder

that's just my personal playing strategy - but I figure that losing chips hurts you more than winning chips gains you - so for doubles and splits - I look for about a 2-1 advantage (win/lose) to justify putting out the extra money -

 

Interesting...

Sometimes this stuff is so confusing to me. Counting is much easier. You punch the numbers and you go. Its betting in the early hands of the tourney that is tough. I can understand why you would think losing x chips hurts you more than winning x chips helps you, but I still have a hard time playing anything different than what is best for EV early in the game. Last hand and second to last understandable to not take the risks, but what about the other 23? So many possibilities. Anyway thanks for the input.

Good Cards,
Rounder21

 

in tbj

you are not playing for winnings - you are playing for relative position against the other players - your betting is driven by what the other players bet and what you need to bet to position yourself against their bankrolls - when you double or split - you are putting out extra chips above your calculated risk - and need a substantial advantage to justify the alteration to your betting strategy and the greater risk of ruin -

you are almost always better off taking your risks by betting more chips upfront - especially if you have surrender as an option -

 

Thanks RK for the help in this thread...

BTW, congrats on qualifying for the European Main Event. I qualified for Aruba and lost in R1. Cant seem to catch a break in the European qualifiers though. I did make it to the final round once and the second to last round a few times. I think I'm playing right, betting just enough to take second in the 2 advance when I get the oppurtunity and betting just enough, when necessary to take the high on a win by the last place person in elimination hands. But I've been caught on some bad swings when it shouldnt happen. Aggrevating.

Good Cards,
Rounder21

 

rounder

I made the main event for Aruba too - then bombed out in the first round - did not win a hand - went out on an all-in catch up bet on hand seven - seven hands - seven losses - then didn't get past round two in any other qualifiers - until the Paris one -

In a two advance format - you're problem may be shooting too low - if you try to get through in second - it only takes one person to swing you - if you shoot for first - one swings you - and you still come in second - and advance -

 

Thanks for the advice RK...

I will keep trying to get one. Still plenty of time I suppose.

Good Cards,
Rounder21

 

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.....

I've also been having a terrible time lately with the European UBT freeroll qualifying. In 20 tries, I've only gotten past the first round twice. Four of those tries have resulted in not a single hand won out of the first 8. Shakes a guy's confidence after a while. Since I returned from the L.A. show taping, I think I've had a target plastered on my back. :cry: