Hi, this is a great site. I'm new to the tournament scene and I'm excited about what I'm learning. I know how to count and used to play years ago when conditions were better in my area. But I'm realizing tournament play is a whole new game anyway. Been reading Wong's BTS and it has lots of great info. So far the biggest problem I can see is being able to estimate my opponents' chips. The way I see it, in order for me to bet accurately, I need to be able to tell exactly how many chips my contending opponents have. I realize there are certain shortcuts such as leaving one more chip than your opponent, but in order to bet exactly accurately (7 people per table 2 advance) at the casino I play at, I will need to be able to estimate chip counts better. Please help if you have any suggestions. Are there people here who can look at a stack of chips and tell exactly how much its worth instantly or do you all have to count the chips and do the math? Do you count from bottom to top or top to bottom? etc. Any tips you have for me would be helpful, I'm having probs with this one. Thanks so much in advance. Rounder21
Rounder: Not the best person to reply to u. But all the really good ones, cept one are in Aruba. There have been some others with suggestions previously. Try searching, chip count through one of this sites links. But, anywho. What one other suggested and I still work on and need to do better is getting those old plastic chips. Stack them in fives, tens, twentys. Back those stacks with the different colors in similiar denominations. Now add one, two or three to each, or only one stack. You get fairly good at just one stack, try setting out three or four position(players). Add and subtract randomly and try to count as quickly as you can. Most tourney's and the UBT now, allow only 20 seconds for you to place your bet and less to take card action. You probably should always know what your stack is, what you bet and what your payout will be for your new total, plus or minus. Then seeing what your opponents put out should help you add or subtract from what their original was. Others have suggested, getting the casino replica chips and darkenin the strips on the side. Once you get comfortable with some system of your own, you'll have to determine ahead of time, for each tourney's table stake, what your chip coloration might work out to and then practice according to that. ie: a starting stake of $500. is a lot easier to track than one of $100,000. Though there should be similiarities in your approach. Hope it helps you better than it's helped me. But then again, I'm kinda lazy.
I find chip counting to be the hardest skill to learn - but it is absolutely needed - the only way to really learn is to do it in a tournament - lots of real 'practice' - sometimes you can shortcut by counting one stack - then comparing that stack to the others - but just keep working on it - you'll learn through doing it - a couple pieces of advice - in the early hands - you can usually get by with an approximate count - what someone bets is as important as how many chips they have - if the differential is not great - second - pay the most attention to the chip leaders and the ones closest to you - if someone is far ahead (multiple advance table) or far behind - give them less attention - also - don't sweat perfect accuracy - at least at the start of your tournament play - even the best counters are probably only accurate to within a few chips - count and go with it - if you're off a little - probably not a killer - except - be sure you are right for the final hands - with the players you need to beat - that's when accuracy is critical - also - don't be afraid to take as much time as allowed - I am sometimes the slowest player in the game - but as long as it is tolerated - I'll take the time to do the chip counts - not my problem if others don't - also - don't wait until your play to start counting - start as soon as you can - and don't just count - track when someone hits a big payoff or loses big - I have messed up some bets because I forgot another player hit big a few hands earlier - and miscounted a high demonination chip as low - I knew he had more than I counted - but lost track - finally - don't get so obsessed with counting you forget the other parts of your game - probably more important to think through your plays than to have perfect counts - that's it
Learning Chip Counting Rounder21- You can always do a quick forum search to find relevent information pertaining to what you're asking. But to get you started, there's a great thread in the Newbie Corner about chip counting. It's called "Home Game", and it was started by Reachy on June 12, 2006. Hope this helps. Elyssez
Glue - that's the answer OK, enough joking around. Getting back to estimating chips. All the advice given so far is good but I have one thing to add. Get yourself some casino size & weight white chips (not the cheap plastic stuff) and some "Elmer's Ultimate Glue" (Ken: this is not spam, I have no financial interest). Don't use super glue, it sets too fast. Now glue the chips together (use only a small dab of glue in the center of each chip - this glue expands as it sets) making several stacks: something like 5, 10, 12, 14, 18, 20, 24, or whatever. Line up the chips as perfect as you can to avoid "steps" and use a clamp to hold the chips together and tight while the glue sets. After removing the clamp, write on the side of each stack, the number of chips in the stack with a black marker. Now set the chips up somewhere where you can view them frequently in the course of a day or evening at home with the number clearly visible. Place each stack at least 3" from any other stack. Now you have the equipment to train your mind. Look at the stacks frequently in the course of an afternoon or evening from different distances. Before long your mind will associate the stack size with the number of chips it contains. Then when you are in a casino, just glancing at a stack of chips will give you a very good idea of the chip count without taking up much time (time is critical don't forget). With practice, you could achieve very accurate counts with mere glances and amaze your friends in the process. GOOD LUCK.
Thanks guys... All your info is valuable. I'm also going to read the other thread mentioned. I played in my second tourny tonight. Lost the first three hands and got eliminated. I bet big because I wanted to get a lead early. I had an oppurtunity for another buy in but couldnt find my credit card and I was $10 short. I had 20 and needed 30 so I played to get the other 10 and I lost those 2 hands too. Not a good night. Very frustrating that I practiced all weekend and only got to play 3 hands in the tournament. I think I'll bet lower next week. Your right about the chip counting, I can see its the most difficult task, but I will continue to practice and use the methods mentioned thanks toolman and everyone else. Rounder21
2.00 per day Toolman Just look at me as an inquisitive grandson, a wide-eyed and enthusiastic recent convert to the joys of TBJ. I get like this I'm afraid. It's happened before, with poker, DJing, Japanese cooking, zen gardening, to name but a few. I usually get bored very quickly as well but I must admit TBJ has something extra, I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is definitely something about it that will keep me coming back for more!!! If you will hold my hand and show me around this garden of delights I'll always be grateful for the knowledge that you can share with me . My posting stats: 2.00 per day 64 Threads started 0.24 threads started per day 17 Avatars used Cheers Reachy
ONLY 2.00 per day?????? BJT.com record holder in Threads started 17 Avatars used - I wonder which one was in use the longest? I've actually seen this one for the past week with no changes - getting bored or are you just practicing your chip counting? The chips down here are regular casino chips. The black and green are no problem counting but the Yellow chips! ouch! Plus the 5000 chips are brown and with the lighting can EASILY be mistaken for 500 chips! I have to admit that the first couple of times I was being obsessive about it when it really doesnt' come into play that much until hands 4-8. I find it easier to just look at the bet and subtract or add to to 25 (starting BR) I also found that when I put on my sunglasses the added contrast helped - obviously not enough!
Thanks again... Yea I've been practicing chip counting and Curt's revenge. and proper betting strategies. I'm getting better. Still cannot look at a stack of chips and tell exactly how much is there but I'm getting faster at counting them. I am confident that I would make the right decision final hand if there were 3 left in my 2 advance mini tournament I play each week. I'm practicing estimating who is BR1, 2 and 3, etc. Where I may have probs is betting with 4 or more in contention. I know the proper bet is usually, bet to cover BR4 winning a max bet or leave 1 more chip than br3, whichever bet is bigger, but it would take me longer than 30 seconds to figure that out. I will probably just bet max if that happens and thats a pretty good strategy from what I've read. I can see this is going to be one of those hobbies you never master but always improve. I practice for at least an hour per day estimating chip counts, timing myself on betting, studying tables (Curts revenge) and such. Knowing the game of blackjack has helped but this is a whole new thing for me. Wong's CTS is a great book and I trust him. In card counting things are more exact though. There is always a correct bet according what is your tolerable risk of ruin, probability of winning the hand, etc. But Tournament blackjack is more like chess. Its really more than just memorization. Thanks again to everyone who has helped. cant wait till monday... Rounder21
