I have been suggesting that casinos charge the players in blackjack tournaments a fee similar to that of poker. I have been saying this since before World Poker Tour was around. Just look at how poker has exploded all over the world. If we could just get one casino chain to offer a similar format for blackjack tournaments as they do in poker, I think other casinos would follow. Once again comparing to poker, after the others saw it work, then they wanted it also, (monkey see, monkey do). I also suggested that instead of giving away free rooms that the casinos offer a $49 rate for all tournament players. I'm am sure that several of you are thinking that I have lost my mind right about now, but just think about how these little things could improve tournament blackjack for the players. The resent Harrah’s tournament in AC was run this way ($300 entry and $30 fee). The casino makes their money from the $30 fees and return 100% of the entries and reentries money. I have no problem with this, the casinos are in business to make money and we want to play more tournaments so this seems to work out perfect. As far as the room rates $49 per night is not a bad deal going in and as we all know if we give the casino play (4 hours @ around $25 avg. per day) we will get our room comp-ed anyway. And those who don't want to play can still get a cheap room rate. Now this concept will really be a good deal for those who don't get invited to all the VIP events. It would open up more tournaments to the regular players. This seems (to me) like the best way for both the casinos and players to get what they want. I really believe we will be seeing more of this format in the near further, I know of a few tournaments in the planning stages at this time bouncing around this concept. I have ideas (tournament formats) where for only $100 entry + $10 fee we could be playing for millions of dollars within a few months. Add online satellite events and they could even have bigger prize pools. Now with prizes pools in the millions, blackjack could start paying out through the quarterfinalist. Just imagine 19th - 36th place winning over $5,000 to $10,000 each. And my format is for $100 + $10 to $300 + $30 entry fees over 3 months to win BIG money vs. $1,000 entrys over a year. I am talking BLACKJACK here, not poker! Now doesn't adding on a tournament fee sound a little better now? Please post your thoughts on this subject.
I don't see any flaws in your logic. I think the reluctance of some casinos to stage blackjack tournaments is that they have a hard time seeing what is in it for them. A fee system will guarantee a positive return for them regardless of the amount of side action they get. I play a few poker tournaments and it is accepted there without anyone blinking an eye. I would certainly pay the fee for an increased number of playing opportunities. For me, fitting into my schedule is as big a factor as size of entry fee or format. More tournaments would obviously give me more chances to fit one into my schedule.
Fee tourneys: Here! Here! TX. The most democratic way. Pay to play. Saddle up to the Bar. Throw u're money down and let's dance. May the best playa win....lot's of money.
Play to Play Paying a reasonable fee for entry into a BJ tournament is something I, and I think most players, would have no or little objection. The problem is that a fee of lets say 10% ($10 fee for a $100 entry fee) barely will cover a casino's costs of holding a tournament ($2,000 in fees for 200 players = no profit). So why hold a tournament if there is no profit? Let's take a look. Fact: Tournaments, by themselves, don't make money and fees will not change that. A casino is driven by the profit motive - WOW, what a surprise that is. So why have tournaments if there is no profit? In the retail business, tournaments would be called a loss leader - loose money on something in order to bring in the customers so they will buy "something else". In the case of casinos, this "something else" is SIDE ACTION. Without it there is no motivation to hold a tournament. This is why the trend is to have invitational tournaments. If you don't prove to the casino that you will give them side action, you can't play in the tournament. Tournaments have been disappearing due to lack of side action. Period. Fees will not revive this trend. We as players must give the casinos what they want in order to keep tournaments alive. Play side action to play tournaments. Or PLAY TO PLAY. It's that simple.
Yes and no I agree that casinos host tournaments to draw players in for the side action, however if they can host a tournament and cover their cost all side play is a bonus. Look at poker, they make very little from the poker rooms, but it is a draw to the casinos. My idea is to cover the tournament cost for the casino, rent out rooms (at a discounted rate), and fill the restaurants. That way the casino and hotel are both making a profit and I guarantee the casinos will get side action. They can still comp out their high rollers and come out a lot cheaper then hosting a normal VIP tournament. Now as long as they don't pull a "GOLD STRIKE" and pocket 50% of the entries and reentries this will be a good deal for everybody.
Will it fly? OK TX, we are in basic agreement, but what I question is: Will it fly? LV casinos have become comfortable with invitation only tournaments. The players they get to play understand (implied) that they must give side play to continue to be invited. So it's side play they give. With open events, side play is iffy at best. I, and I'm sure basically all members, frequently come across tournament players in "open" events who say "I don't play the casino games. I only come for the tournaments.". These are the players that are eliminated in invitation only tournaments and the casinos love it. I question if the "hotel" will benefit from discounted rooms. It costs a lot to run a hotel. Giving away rooms at about half price means the "hotel" is not making any money. If, through internal bookkeeping, the "casino" reimburses the "hotel" for lost income, well that just adds to the cost of running the tournament. Sure the casino will get "some" side action. But that's not what they want. They want a LOT OF SIDE ACTION. Restaurants - yes, they will benefit, no question. It's an interesting coincidence that you bring up fees at a time when Caesars Indiana is hosting a BJ tournament Feb. 18 & 19. 150 to play, $140 goes into the prize pool and a $10 service fee. No free room for the average Joe. It'll be interesting to see if they continue this with future tournaments. Time will tell. Like I said before, I agree with you that fee based tournaments are desirable. I'm just trying to point out why it will be a hard sell in my opinion. GOOD LUCK on your efforts.
Stardust example: Tim i'll use Stardust as an example with 200 players: Their VIP tournament they give away $50,000 to $60,000 in prizes, they also give away free rooms for 3 nights (just use my discounted rate of $49.00 per night). Now added in the banquet (about $30,000). Now lets add it all up: $ 50,000 prize money $ 30,000 banquet $ 29,400 hotel --------- $109,400 total and that is all based on side play. Now try it my way and you cut at least half that cost plus they still get all the side play. The plus side for the casino is about $54,700 savings if not more and a fuller tournament (if they allow an open tournament for all). If it was my casino I would do it in a heartbeat.
Just another reason for fees.... Several players are banned from playing the regular tables, but with a tournament fee there would be no reason to keep all those players from playing in an open entry fee tournament.
New Numbers for Turning Stone Turning Stone (in Verona, NY) has done just that for their monthly Blackjack Double Header tournaments. After years of 100% payouts and many added-money events they are now keeping part of the entries for themselves. But you had to pay attention to find it out. At the December event the announcement was made that beginning in 2006 first place would pay $3000 (up from $2520) and the prize pool would be $5000 (up from $4200) with the 2nd thru 7th place prizes raised accordingly. In return the buy-in would be $35 (up from $25). No mention of any fee. (I have updated the listing in Members Area.) This tournament has 168 seats, so do the math and you discover the ‘vig’ is $880, a hefty 17.6%. I was told this past Monday by a long-time tournament regular that the reason was because the casino had been making up the difference in dealer tokes between what the winners would tip and the floor rate. The new numbers were to offset that expense. To be fair, I must say the casino has been very generous with the extra added-money events. Last year they had special tournaments with added prize money of $5,800 (February 10k Buy-In); $1,800 (March 6k Seniors Only); $7,800 (July 12k Anniversary Tournament); and $10,800 (August 15k Buy-In). Each one had the same format and $25 entry as the regular monthly DH. (I played all four and cashed in two of them so at this point I can’t complain. ) So far this year there is a 6k Buy-in scheduled for April 6, and they probably will have an Anniversary Tournament in July again, this one for $13k...if so I'll be there for sure. :birthday: --jr
