Hilton Suited BJ 100,000 Tournament

The Hilton just completed their not so true 100,000 tournament

There were 907 players that showed up to play

So the expected value of this tournament was 110.25 per player

When you purchased your Mulligan the real value of the tournament dropped to 10.25.With all things being equal

Your expected value would be slightly more if you are a skilled player but not enough to make it worth your while to travel across the country to play in.

Its almost a break even deal if you drive in from Henderson which is 10 miles from the Las Vegas strip.

From my observations and information that I received over 90 % of the players purchased the mulligan.That would equal 81,600 of the 100,000 being contributed by the players

The Hilton did return via drawings 10,000 of the mulligan money but players with rated played received extra drawing tickets.The exact way the extra tickets were earned were that for every 200 dollar/points of theoretical earned players received extra tickets.So the money returned was really more slanted to the players who played extra at the tables.Almost like giving away sand at the beach.

So the drawing added back 11.02 to your expected value to bring your trip to the Hilton to be worth a whopping 21.27

Congrats to the 7 Finalist who took home the bulk of the money and the semi finalist who took home 1,000 each.

The last 5 hands of the Final table have been sent to Ken and it will be available shortly.

Joep

 

I was in town for the whole weekend to see the Pacquaio/Morales fight, had a great time watching it. Then we remained in town until today, just got back late this evening. I was 2nd at my table in the first round and advanced, then the 2nd round I was 1st at my table and advanced. In the 3rd round I ended up getting knocked out on the ace hand, it's all a blur right now but I ended up using my mulligan and doubled down for less to an 18 with the dealer having a 6 up.... I had all my chips except $50 in since they would not allowed anything other than bets in $100 increments approx $4900 and the dealer took one card to 19 and took me out of the tourney... Oh well there is always May 2007.... I qualified with another suited Blackjack so we will return for another run at it. Had some decent runs outside the tourney and had a good time overall..... Take care.... wish you all well

 

Congrats to Chips McCoy

Chips McCoy held up the honor of Ken's site by making it to the semis of the suited BJ tournament, and bringing home $1000 in cash. Congrats Chips!

 

Thanks Dr.

thankyou Dr. A lot of it was all the moral support from the BJT bretheran there. I too "got swung" on the free Ace hand of the semis - dropping over two max bets against 5 others. But, a proud to have made it to the 18 semi-finalists. Incidently, I used my mulligan twice in the 5 rounds I advanced and once in the round that I didn't. Three times it was "returned" to the rack after the round.

And a Happy Birthday to you.

Chips

 

Hilton Tournament

For the life of me, I can't understand JOEPS snide comments on this event.

First of all, it's an open tournament, at a major Vegas casino, with no entry fee. Show me another event like it, anywhere.

It is well organized, and frankly, a lot of fun. The players all seem to have a good time. This is evidenced by the large number of participants who eagerly pursue suited black jacks so they will be eligible for the next tournament in May.

 

Joeps comments may come from the fact that he can not play there.

 

The Real Facts

First off let me apologize to most of the 6,100 members here.You see there are a 5 or 6 members here who have 2 or more sign ons and these fore mentioned members seem to have this habit of twisting my words or just posting "Crud" when ever I post. My deepest apologies that you have to sift your way through their never ending nonsense, when ever I seem to post anything. Some members here actually enjoy my post and their contents, the other 5 or 6 just have an agenda.

My post about the Hilton Tournament is full of ACCURATE facts.The post also contains how to figure out the true value of this tournament and any other tournament that you are thinking about participating in.

There are no snide comments in it just facts.

It is also not true that I cant play at the Hilton . I recently participated in their dice tournament and was fortunate enough to make the semi finals and cash out with 1 K. I also played in their recent Pai-Gow Tournament and 3 Card Poker tournament and Let It Ride tournament where I also cashed.

I also will be playing in the Hilton's new Million Dollar Blackjack Tournament that is scheduled for a March 2007 kick-off .I think that is enough accurate facts to once again prove and dispel Poker Nuts bad information that I can not play there.

Now on to one of my other frequent and inaccurate critic's..... Fred Guy

Its not an open tournament.Its a Tournament that requires some sort of play and then once you have achieved that criteria it now will cost you an extra $100 to compete in this tournament with an equal supply of tools (Mulligan).If you do not purchase the Mulligan you are at a severe disadvantage

If you really consider this an open event then I will show you where else you can play a similar type tournament that once you have reached the set criteria that the casino requires of you , then you can play in their "Open" event without it costing you any additional money,unlike the Hilton.

A true free event as we all know it is one that requires play, when that is achieved it now requires the casino to hold up to its end of the deal and put up the bulk of the prize money less re-buys. The Hilton's tournament is almost completely funded by the players, who have almost no choice but to purchase the dreaded Mulligan if they want to compete on a equal level.

Now here is a list of casinos that do hold Really "Free" Events

Here you go from the South end of the strip working North bound

Mandalay Bay
Luxor
Trop
NY NY
MGM
Monte Carlo
Aladdin
Paris/Ballys
Bellagio
Caesars
Flamingo
Mirage
Harrahs
Venetian
Treasure Island
Wynn
Golden Nugget
Binions
Las Vegas Club
Plaza

Pretty long list wouldn't you say FRED ?

Also please note that the last 5 hands of this tournament were recorded by me and Ken Smith has them. I assume he will be posting them for all to see. This feature is just one of the many learning tools that are made available here on this site.

A few and select members here use this site for other purposes and for them I apologize to you, because they wont.


Joep

 

My views

It looks to me like anything worthwhile is not truly free in LV or any casino for that matter. Casinos run tournaments to make money, they don’t do it to be nice guys. So using a short version, let’s see how they do this as it pertains to this thread.

The List of “free” tournaments posted by Joep:
I am not familiar with all the casinos on this list, but for the most part, all of their “free” tournaments are invitational. How do you get an invite? The simple answer is play a lot, in some cases a whole lot, before the tournament. Some require $200 to $500 (and higher) average bet for x number of hours. Some require a higher level of “player’s card”. Some require both. The requirement list is endless but you get the idea. Bottom line is Toolman’s Law #5: “PLAY TO PLAY”.

The Hilton $100,000 tournament:
Are they doing us any favors? NO! However, no “big money” play is required to enter. Yes, before the tournament you must play live BJ and get a suited BJ with a $10 bet but this occurs, on average, once out of about 85 hands. So the expected cost is $4.25 ($10 x 85 x .005). If you play this tournament on a regular basis, you can get your suited BJ without making a separate trip. What I mean is when you play in the Nov. event you can get your suited BJ for the May event at the same time – no extra trip is required. Now add in the $100 for the Mulligan and you have an expected cost of $104.25. Bottom line again is Toolman’s Law #5: “PLAY TO PLAY”.

To rephrase what I said earlier: THERE ARE NO TRULY FREE WORTHWHILE TOURNAMENTS AT B&M CASINOS. The casinos are in business to make money, not to give it away. With that being said, for an expected cost of $104.15 the Hilton’s $100,000 tournament gives the recreational player a chance to compete for a large prize without having to be a high roller. The tournament is fun and you play against a lot of ploppies – I estimate at least 75% ploppies. We're talking BJ ploppies not just tournament ploppies. Add to that a reduced room rate of about $55 per night (comped if you have a good record of play) and you have a great 3 day trip to LV, a short vacation if you will, for a relatively low cost. Do you get a great EV? Joep answered this – hell no.

To summarize:
If you play tournaments as a pastime, a hobby as I do, I say go for it. Even if you play on a more professional level, it seems to me that when you factor in the over all quality of players, this is a tournament to consider.

 

Toolman all good points but do keep in mind that a lot of the other tournaments in town have only 100-150 players in them as opposed to close to 1,000 at the Hilton. The other tournaments still have the same prize pool . Recently at the Golden Nugget in Las Vegas.

The Suggested betting requirement at the GN is about an average bet of 75 for 4 hours a day and that includes the room also.

If you were to play 60 hands per hour for 4 hours a day that would cost you approx 22.50 per hour in theoretical loss per day for 2 days

So that would cost you $180 for the 2 days that the tournaments was there

100,000 Divided by 150 players has an EV of $666.66 per player

666.66 minus 180 theo loss still looks a lot better than the Hilton's EV

Once you are at the Golden Nugget there are no extra charges.Like a Mulligan


Joep

 

The

Arrogant arm of BJT chastises and demeans any avenues of BJT that they are excluded from or just plain too arrogant to play in. Why would a friend to BJT chastise players for traveling to a tourney? Ill tell you why, because in their own mind their crud dont stink. Even tho, as toolman correctly points out, not many tournaments are free because you need to risk your money on the casino floor, but you can find good deals and practice in the BJT world thru mini tournaments. I was talking with napodot a couple weeks ago and he told me of many minis he had played in one week in LV area. In Laughlin you can play in5 minis per week and Im sure Reno has some too. You can plan a trip around minis and build credit for a major "invite"ifyou choose. At these games you can lay small risk and enjoy hours of BJT. This brings us to what we should all hope for and not break down via back stabbing and crud, Tex is trying to start a BJT aka TBT circuit for all of us lowlings to enjoy. It will be affordable. You wont need to be a multi millionaire to play. The key to making an affordable game is creating a circuit and then that circuit being supported. Then we will know what we are getting and not have to be a pawn on the casino floor to get it. JMO.

 

Crystal Ball

Its to bad I can't predict the trends of my stock portfolio like I can predict who will show up on :joker: any thread that I post on. I'm 3 for 3 so far.You guys just keep on making me look so smart, almost like I can see into the future.

We are just missing 2 other's but then again they may have already posted here under their other names already.Or maybe there are still tending to their Turkey :laugh:

No one was chastised, only the math was presented for all those who can understand it. For those who don't under stand the math I guess it could be seen as a deterrent to attend such events .

Joep

 

TBT update

I'm trying as hard as I can, I currently have over 16 casino that have shown interest in the TBT. Now out of 16 casinos we couldn't use more than 12 of them anyway and to be realilistic I may not get that many for the first year, but once I get the okay I will schedule a 12 month tour plus championship finals from the casinos that do sign up to host the TBT events.

I would love to annouce a starting date for the TBT, but until everything is in place I am not making any promises. I have seen to many broken promises about tournaments and read how up set this makes the players.

Be assured that I am trying as hard as I can to get the TBT up and running ASAP.

Once the TBT is up and running the TBJPA Format, Rules, and Point stands for every player will be listed for all to see and comment on. And yes they will be affordable, but we will have additional fees:

1) A $300 entry fee and two guaranteed re-buys at $150 each (for each of the monthly events).

2) A $30 casino fee per player, per event (at least for the first year).

3) A $40 TBJPA fee per player for the months you play in a TBT event, however you will get $50 off the championship final event for each monthly you play in.

 

23 %

I have a question if I may ask

So its a $30 casino fee per player per tournament and then a $40 fee to tbjpa for every 300 Tournament attended.

That works out to be a up front fee of over 23 %

Considerable more than the 7 1/2 % that the Ultimate Blackjack Tour
charges.

Can anyone over come a 23% fee with their skill ?

Joep

 

I agree woth Joep with this one, everyone wants to compare BJ with poker but I do not know of one poker tourney series (wpt, wsop circuit, upc, Cailfornia State championship, etc.) that charges a monthly fee or any charges other than the house entry fee. Hell the if they thought it would fly they would do it, can you see Harrah's or L.Berman (WPT) turning any money down? Can anyone over come a 23% fee with their skill ? In the short run with luck yes , in the long run no way if it is an honest game.

 

Id agree, with the next few UBT Tour stops in the US and then you include the scheduled 1 million dollars in free-rolls plus the free seats right on to all UBT Final table, plus the value of the TV exposure its not even close.

The best players in the world can not overcome 23 %

I would say that a 10% up front charge is about the limit that skillful play can overcome. Travel expenses are just that it cost to travel anywhere you go. It may take longer to fly somewhere outside of the US but my ticket to Aruba and St Kitts were not any more expensive than flying back to New York.With advance ticket buying you can always find a good deal on the INTERNET no matter where you are flying. Plus blackjack tournaments and exotic ports of call are always more tempting to the eye

More tournaments are a good thing as long as the up front charges don't severely outweigh the EV.

The players that played in the casino down in St Kitts were comped their rooms and meals just like in any casino here in Las Vegas.

I played $200 in a positive "cherry pie" machine and surprisingly had $20 in comp dollars to apply to my hotel bill. The rooms were only $50 per night on an island in the Caribbean . A lot of the players shared rooms making the cost even less

Joep

 

Ken

How do you figure the added risk of playing team UBT and the very few exclusive people whom can afford to play every UBT event? The way UBT is set up, now, very few players will have games under their belts besides those who have played in Aruba and St Kitts and now these invites. I feel confident we will see many of the same names on the final table lists for the couple of games here in USA like we saw at the Palms. The average player here will be at a disadvantage. I see very poor value and risk scenario for most of us.


JMO

 

Hey Barney, lets compare apples to apples then shall we - Lets take TX's casino cruise as an example of how "fair it is" shall we?

UBT Event at The Venetian in June entry fee 2500.00+200
"Rake" = 8%
Cost of flying to Vegas 250.00
Cost of staying - NONE (yes I places in Vegas where I can stay comped thank you very much)

Cost of Meals - NONE
Cost of Drinks - NONE
Prize Pool - assuming 150 people x 2500 = 375,000

My cost for tourney = 2950.00+250.00 for wife's travel = 3200

TX's Cruise in June entry fees 900.00 + 80
Cost of flying to Galveston = 200.00
Cost of Cruise = 1172 x 2 (per person rates double occupanyc) = 2344
Cost of Meals - NONE
Cost of Drinks - A Ton - they don't comp drinks like the casinos
Prize Pool - assuming $50 people x 900 = 45,000

Now there is also a hidden cost to the cruise because I can book on Carnival.com for 1020 so it costs me an extra 300 to book through the group for the cost for the cruise is really 80+150=380 on 900 in tourney fees = 25.55% - hmm the same as TX's tour! Imagine that. Oh I forgot that if I want to stay in a cabin with my wife, who isn't playing in the tourney, there is an extra 150 in tourney fees so the rake for me is actaully 380/900=42.22%

But hey it's a cruise right?

So in June I have a choice:

UBT Event at the Venetian - costs = 3200 prize pool = 375,000 (est)
TX Casino Cruise - costs = 3724 prize pool = 90,000 (est)

Yep Barney you are right in YOUR math and I'm so glad that I have people like you looking out for us little guys. Is that Nancy Pelosi math or what?

 

Barney are you SCARED?

Lets do the numbers for the first 2 events:

Aruba: TEAM UBT MEMBERS - 10
TEAM UBT FINALISTS - 2/150

St. Kitts: TEAM UBT MEMBERS - 10
TEAM UBT FINALISTS - 1

POINT TOTALS - TEAM UBT MEMBERS in top 5 - 1

Correct me if I'm wrong but TEAM UBT wouldn't get a metal in the Olympics

If you would spend as much time PLAYING on Bet21.com as you did posting you wouldn't be as scared of them! JMO

 

I already said the cruise was to expensive for me. If I were going to spend that on a cruise I would go to Alaska. And if you think you are going to Vegas all expenses paid you are crazy. LOL