I don't know where to post this topic. It is a relatively new evolvement of BJ tourneys. In a few recent B and M casino BJ tourneys, the winners have received partial payment in promo chips. Asof most of you already know, the value of these chips is less than true value, because the casino takes the chip, win or lose. This particular part of the tourney is not unique. What is unique, is the large denomination (5000 in some cases) of the chips. Also, they cannot be broken down into smaller denominations, hence a one bet phenomena. This is a large bet, even for a large bettor. You would like to get the greatest return for your one time bet, but are unsure where to turn. They are restricted only to table play. Would like to hear how BJT members would play the chip.
Count, backcount, backcount, until I found a (very) favorable condition, and go for it. What else is there?
Don't play blackjack. You'll be at a significant disadvantage since you can't split (or maybe even double down unless you want to risk the downpayment on a car).
Stretch, I like your thinking but I am not sure that is the best table bet. I don't know if craps, 3card, or any of the variations of poker offered by the casino would be better than your solution. The fact that this scenario offers only one win-lose bet and is not part of a continuum of bets makes it a huge play, especially for the local 5 dollar BJ player. It is much like the last hand of a BJ tourney in which you must win the hand to win the tourney.
Backcount to a count of TC of +4 or more for about a 2% edge. No other table game has a single bet with player advantage. Also, most tourneys with promo chips as part of the prize don't hand out just one chip. So you would probably have more than one chip to play with (double, split, if appropriate), until you are down to your last one.
craps, definitely BJ can give you favorable odds as to ev if the count is right - but - ONLY IF YOU BJ OR SPLIT OR DOUBLE - and you probably won't want to double or split with these big promo chips - especially if it is with your own, real, money - best odds as to win/lose - which is what you want - is to bet the don't come at the craps table - a 1.2% house edge -
Not stated Since there is no mention of these chips being limited to even money bets, take your chances and bomb away on straight up roulette numbers!
Except that the original poster specifically says the large denomination chip can't be broken down in this case. If you can't double or split optimally you will not get a 2% edge by backcounting blackjack, I'm afraid (you won't quite get that at TC 4 in most cases anyway). Best for even money bets is probably baccarat. You might want to sell a piece of your action to some friends. That way you get some value out of the chip at zero risk. Explain to them how they work and that you'll give them $1000 worth of it for say $450. They get a good theoretical return and you get hard cash. Do this 100 times and you'll come out like gangbusters. Just make sure you lose. (just kidding, that wouldn't be nice)
even money Sorry Bradley, I didn't specify, but most casinos say they are even money bets. I have seen smaller denomination (100) pay 3/2 for BJ at the discretion of a supervisor. Doubt this would happen with a 5000 chip
Mike, go here to see the best way to play them. Good luck http://www.beyondcounting.com/pdfs/beyondcouponsbjfo.pdf
Big Chips: Swog, of course points in the ultimate right direction. Of a little simpler explanation by the same James Grosiean, in the January 2007, now defunct blackjack version of ALL-IN Magazine, on page 47 of the blackjack section is a neat little gauranteed profit table. Though the tables are in reference to "match play" coupons, I believe you could view the one play chip the same. The "catch" would be playing more than one of the "chips" at a time(roulette/craps) and putting up the correct amount of real money(your own) to cover the "off" bets. Now if the promo chips are in $1grand to $5grand denominations and you're a red chipper then you have to disregard JG's suggestion. But a well known BJ tournament player(and last I know, still doing well) was able to red/black the chips at roulette for about a half hour before they stopped him. Not as optimum as JG's, but still a better shot than a "one-fer". And I don't know if anyone has tried it at craps, but if they stop you at roulette, cause it's been done, wait "a while" and try it at craps. By that time you probably exausted any shot at Baccarrat, but Roulette was the easiest attempt. Craps the highest gaurantee. Now the conundrum: If Mikey7xxxx is a casino "guy", I apologize to all here. But the JG stuff is out there. Soooooo. And Swog referenced it, though maybe many casino "guys" wouldn't be able to wade through the material. PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE PIT GUY, and screw with my comps. Finally, Mikeyxxxx: If you can't find the reference in ALL-IN, then PM me and I'll try to recreate the tables as JG listed them, hoping to high heaven or the depths of hell, that I don't incur any copywrite infringements or egg attacks on my house. Now go out there and get 50 percent return on your bonus chips,
Why not... If you have that big of promo chips I would have to assume it is a larger casino with bigger players. If this is the case why not simple sell the chip to one of their bigger players. If a player is slamming out $1,000 or more per bets anyway I am sure they would jump on a chance to deal for your promo chip. That way both you and the player come out ahead. Just a thought!
thanks for your responses. One quick after thought-Suppose casinos pay only in chips. It/s possible, in the future.
Already been done... Several casinos have paid out in promo chips for the prize money for the last two years or more. It hasn't been very popular and some have changed but to regular payouts.
If that's the case then such tourneys should be aggresively avoided, and any tourney director AND casino trying to pull this off publicly condemned since it is a total ripoff given the matchplay aspect. If on the other hand they state before hand that they will pay you in "normal"-type (bj pays 3/2, chips don't evaporate upon a win, etc.) chips that need be cycled at the tables, and provide a premium to the player since he has to take on more risk and time to collect, then it gets a bit more interesting and could be a win/win for everybody.
Another though, if you have more than one chip $5K promo chip on the Pass Line. $5K promo chip on the Don't Pass Line $84 in real casino chips on the 12.
conundrum Noman, I am definitely not a casino guy. There are a number of people that are using this forum, that will attest to that. A conundrum does exist but it is of another nature. It exists in the mind of a BJ player when contfronted with a 5000 decision, as opposed to a 25 or even a 100 decision. We want to " get this one right" because it will have a definite impact on our bankroll. Most of us would not be overly concerned if we lose 100, but to lose 5 big ones with one swoop, might cause a little more thought. I have a casino mailer that advertises for a tournament in which 2- 5000 chips will be given to players as a bonus at registration. I hope those 2 players have access to the info . provided by all of you. Swog, thanks for the JG info.
FMike756 Follow the JG trail. Parse the examples and make it work for you and your situation. If it's only one chip. You have no choice, except to play the game of your choice. Have Fun. If it's two chips and you can sneak them both down, your better off. If it's two chips and you can fund a third bet, your a gauranteed winner. It matters little if it's red or rainbow. If you get backed off, your back to step one.
Let's assume lots of chips, very large amount of money. Say $1m in $10,000 promo chips. Grosjean says the best hedge is baccarat -- player and banker. Which makes sense. But what if the high stakes roulette is single zero and they only take half your bet if zero hits? Grosjean shows $48.73 for $50 promo chip at baccarat and $47.22 for a $50 promo chip at baccarat. Would a roulette where they take half mean that the lost value ($50-$47.22) is cut in half, so that roulette value is $48.61? I guess that is still lower. Is my math/theory right? Thanks in advance. (P.S. I assume $50 promo chip that is keep if win, would be $100 promo chip if lose if win).
