Since this site is about BJT (both line and on-line) I have to ask myself one simple question – why aren’t there more events? Is the answer that the concept of BJT is too complex for the average Joe/Jane or the reality that it isn’t profitable for the B&M casinos? How long does a live tourney take. Lets make these assumptions: 3 rounds, 2 players advancing and a final table of 6 (54 players. 9 tables of 7 then 3 tables of 6 then 1 table of 6). Will this take 3 or 4 hours? (Online EBJ is usually 90-120 minutes How much $ will a B&M make from this tourney? 54 players 250+50 fee = 13,500 prize pool and 2700 rake. During those same 3-4 hours how much could the B&M make from live table play? A lot more than 2,700 I bet! Is that why the picking are so slim? But how about poker rooms in the casino’s? The house only makes $ from their rakes too am I correct?
Most are invite tournaments... Most casino cut poker rooms out of there casinos until the last 3 - 5 years. With poker becoming so popular on TV and the internet they had to add poker rooms back in as a drawing card. The rack they pull in isn't that big of money maker, but it is a needed draw to atract in players.
TX is absolutely correct,it cost the casino X amount of dollars to put them on & if there isn't sufficient side play,then they lose all around.The MGM properties have went to an invitation only format,catering primarily to the high rollers.Example,Bellagio you must have a 50K credit line to be invited,Mirage a 40K,MGM a 40K.You get the picture.So in the casinos eyes it's better to run day to day operations & forget the Tournaments...Luxor aka (Phil Dunaway)
what gets missed I think is that people who play in bj tournaments have fun - I don't think I have ever talked with a first time tournament player who didn't enjoy their experience and want to do it again - a good tournament makes your customers happy - and will help get them back into the casino in the future - that's a positive for the casino
Give 'em action Yes they'll be back to the casino but only for the next tournament to see their "buddies". And while they are visiting their "buddies", the casino gets no action. No action means no profit. No profit means no tournaments. So visiting with your "buddies" too much means no visiting with you "buddies" at all in the future. Tx and luxor have it right. It's also toolman's law #5 - PLAY TO PLAY. To play tournaments you have to play the casino games be it table games, VP, or slots . Open tournaments are rapidly becoming extinct. Is not the casino's fault, it's the player's fault. And that's the truth.
Tbt The Tournament Blackjack Players Association (TBJPA) I started is to try and get a set of national rules and format for blackjack tournaments all around the country. If we ever want to compete with poker we need to get organized. Just look at TX Hold'em, no matter where you play anywhere in the world the rules are the same, the format may be a little different (starting bankroll), but over all they are the same everywhere. Now that is not to say that other BJ formats are no good or not fun to play, remember poker doesn't just offer TX Hold'em they have other formats as well. I am also trying to start a TBJPA sanctioned Tournament Blackjack Tour (TBT) that offers the best possible rules and format for strategic tournament BJ play. The "Luck Factor" will always be there, but if we can take out as much luck as possible and add more of a skill factor I believe we will start drawing in bigger amounts of players. After all who wants to spend lots of money on travel and entries on a coin toss. I think players will be more willing to spend money if they feel they have more control over the out come. Also the TBT will lower the top prize and also pay out through the top 18 players, which will allow more players to come out ahead in each tournament. Now having said all the above, without making the TBT "Risk-Free" for the casinos (adding a 10% casino fee the first year) I don't see us ever getting any casinos giving us a chance to play. We need our foot in the door to prove we do have the following to make these tournaments work. If we show them we will support these events maybe more "OPEN" tournaments will start popping up for all of us. Now I am working on get additional discounts as well to help off set this fee. We will also have a TBJPA monthly due, but only for the monthly events you play in, however we will take off $50 from the championship tournament for each monthly event you play in. So you'll actually be gaining $10 per event over all, it will just be given back latter in the year. Now don't expect to play the big mega-resorts once I get the TBT going, several of the host properties I have been talking too are a good hour to hour and half away from the nearest airport, but at least they are willing to work with the players and allow us "OPEN" events using our rules and TBJPA format. I am hoping for a $15,000 to $20,000 monthly 1st prize each month starting out and over $400,000 championship prize pool, with the top 36 players cashing in. My goal is to have everyone in the finals cashing in at least $10,000 (that would be for 6th place). And everyone in the quarterfinals cashing in around $1,000 each. Now if anyone else has a better idea to try and get this type of a tour going that will offer lower entries and open to all players please let me know. I will tell you that I have 7 locations now and hoping to add the remaining properties ASAP. If all goes well we will be hosting TBT events from east coast to the west coast, mid-west, north, south, and anywhere else they give of a chance to play our TBJPA format BJ tournaments. I do have one airline offering 5% discounts and a car rental company that is offering 10% discounts for the TBJPA and hopefully I'll be getting more discounts for the players along the way. The host properties are offering casino rates as well with the chance to get comp-ed out with side action. Note the reason I selected to travel all around is to give every player an equal opportunity to play without paying cross-country travel expenses. Also it is my hope to pick up lots of new players who are experiencing tournament BJ for the first time. Now before I start getting slammed, this is just my opinion, and about 850 other players that I have surveyed over the passed 8 years about what they want and like in tournament BJ play, it is not to say some of you may prefer other types of formats and different rules. Remember all I am trying to do is give you another option, not take away your options.
Live tourneys: Traditional: Side action, keeps you on the mailing list. While a number of the six figure tourneys at "up scale" Vegas spots seem to require that insurmountable hourly average, I have recently noticed the "mid range" locations are trying to lure anyone and everyone. I had good creds with Haraha ha ha has for quite a while, then couldn't get in the door. Since the middle of October, not a day goes by I don't get an invite to any kind of tournament at one of their properties and all of them are having BJ tourneys for about $20,000 first,(based on entries and rebuys) Or you could slot, crap or poker. (Holdem or 3-card) Even pai gow. This recent spate of invitations is in contrast to their almost year of having me on the ignore list. I didn't EFT them any money, so, I can only guess they're not getting the crowds they once did, or thought they did. And are dredging their mailing lists. In the meantime the daily and weekly minis in Vegas seem to still be going strong. So one could bundle some events. Here especially in January, if you could take two weeks with the right amount of "CHIPS" comps you could be in four different properties and about 8 tourneys and the only thing you'd have to pay for is your escort.
Harrah's invites I find this hard to believe, the BJ tournaments that is. Can you be specific about these $20,000 (First place) tournaments? I apparently give them a lot more action than you and I never get invited to Paris, Caesars, or Harrah's but you imply you got invited to all these. My wife, who also gives them more action than you doesn't get the BJ invites either. I can't even talk my way into BJ tournaments at the 3 properties I mentioned let alone get an invite. So what's up, are your invites for BJ tournaments or slots, or bingo, or Pai Gow or whatever?
Tool: This isn't complete, cause I generally toss the slot, 3 card and pai gow stuff. But. Dec. 1-4 was IP, buy in. But a harraha ha has property. Dec. 15-17 THE ACTUAL Hararrah hahas. Jan. 4 Harrah ha has properties Poker tourney at the ACTUAL Harrah ha has. with rooms available at bally's, caesars, flamingo, Rio or Harrah ha has. $20,000 first place, based on entries, plus seat in the WSOP. Three free nights at any of the above, of course based on availability. Paris Jan 12-15 Blackjack--1st $20,000 on entries. Three free nights any Harraha has property, based on availability. Caesars Jan 19-22 Poker tourney. $50,000 first place, based on entries. Three free nights, all properties. One or all also had the other events going. Add to that Boulder stations' reasonable, competitive and friendly Saturday tourney, A couple of coast daily's and some side show bob places along with special, "just stay with us" offfers from Rio, IP and Harrahas. And that's just Harraha ha has. I've also got some reserve FRONTIER availability for the down times, or maybe one of my new friends in TOWN would let me flop for a night or two. That is if I were going to Make a January of it. Just shows to goya tool, the fickleness of the casinos. I ain't got that much play in the last year. You do. They overlooked you but spied my wallet. And I haven't even checked the events calander on the site. But Orleans even has a reasonable event going on as we speak.
Harrah's properties BJ tournaments Thanks noman for the info. After I cut through all the events that don't apply to the Harrah's properties (I excluded IP) and eliminated the non BJ events there is only 1 BJ tournament: So in reality, you didn't get as many invites to Harrah's properties BJ tournaments as you first indicated. I'm still jealous. I didn't get an invite to the Paris event nor did my wife. Oh well, go figure.
non profit tournies How much side play is enough? I really want your opinions. Why don't the casinos reduce the frills and freebies and charge a fee to cover expenses. I'd pay an entrance fee to play. My feeling is that they don't want to attract good BJ players to there tables. They prefer a 5% edge to a 0.05%. One will get more invitations by donating to their slots then by playing BJ or VP. It's not just side play it's all about their edge! That is my humble opinion. tgun
How much is enough??? I agree with what you say tgun. I'd like restate something that has been said before. If the casinos have an invite tournament, they should convert it to an open event if all the seats are not taken by the invites. But I'm not holding my breath on that one. As for side play, that varies widely by tournament and casino. In BJ, a $40 average bet over 10 to 12 hours of play will probably get you invited to a Harrah's group BJT with a relative low prize pool. When the Stardust was in operation, that same $40 average bet got you invited to some $100,000 tournaments with rooms included. What I'm really saying is that you have to inquire at the casino where you want play in their BJTs to see how much play is needed to get the invite you want. Slot note: If you play VP, or heaven forbid - slots , you can rack up points faster. They love slot players because the casino edge is so huge that they have a near guaranteed profit.
Toolman and tourneys: You forgot Rio which was first week of Jan. and I apologize for including Pai gow,(I exagerated, ok lied.) My half baked point wasn't necessarily exclusive to Harrah ha ha has, but those windows when there are still bulked tourneys all over town that one could get into. And I see that Golden Nuggett fits into that January timetable.(and since Cerritos can't play you'd have an edge.) Now a true PRO like "CHIPS" spends months hop scotching properties. Not only your "house" invited slot, BJ, craps, but other properties open events, local minin's. ( the st. louis group played four or five in eight days or something like that on their outing last Feb., thanks to T-Bird and Rookie. Now throw in the "properties" gift stays. Get a hand bag. Get a percentage on a thoroubreed. Just come cause we "love you"...........One could parlay a pretty good month. The mailings I'm getting for February are looking as good as Jan. And IP is a Harrah ha ha has property. And to the point of side play. Yeah. Give em the play. But as I said, for over a year I was persona non grata at Rio in particular, which is my favorite place and was refused call in entries at a number of other Harrah ha ha has events. Then boom, out go the lights and they want me! Back. I'm suspecting that other than BCS championship weekend, Superbowl Weekend, NBA playoffs, NCAA Tourney,(pick -em) Opps. Rodeo! That the rooms ain't gettin filled with playas and all the properties are scouring their mailing lists. My thoughts that if you scour this sites' events list, check your mailings twice, naughty and nice, you could structure just about a month's free vacation. Other than your air fare and escort fees.
