I am listing some of the reasons why I think in less than a year there will be no way of funding poker sites by large number of players using electronic means once the enforcement rules are in place. There always be a number of players that can work around the system but not many. 1- The supporters of the legislation are well aware of third party funding methods like Neteller/e-cash, etc. In an interview with one of the senators, it was clear that they understand the need to stop those entities to be effective. 2- It will be very easy for the US government to require banks to stop transactions with any company that will allow funding to gambling sites even if they have a legitimate business outside gambling. Any third party funding company that does not comply with the US law , will not be allowed to use the US banking system. 3- Neteller noble efforts to put the burden of blocking US players on their merchants will not satisfy the US government. Either the US will force Neteller to block US customer funding gambling sites or they will be put on the list of blocked companies using the US banking system. (see this thread for Netellet attempts to shift burden to merchants 4- I am not a lawyer, but there is a lot wishful thinking on these forums that if company A receive payment from player this way and then company B processes the money this way and company C send a check to Site x , then the law does not apply. It is common sense to think that if the purpose of all these transactions is to bypass US law, the banks will be forced to block any transaction where the US banking system is the loop for any of those workarounds. 5- Proxy servers and post offices in Canada will not be a secure way to have your money online if you ever need to show proof of residency (utility bills, bank statement without P.O boxes, etc) . 6- Offshore banking is not a solution either as any bank doing business in the US will not knowingly violate the US law as it will affect their US operations. Some exceptions may apply but not for 1000s of players. 7- Sending cashiers checks to Juanita Martinez and Pedro Ramos in Costa Rica may work for a limited number of players. Eventually, the banks or money order companies will catch up with the scam and block certain type of transactions or will required some kind of proof of where the money goes. 8- Even if there are methods of funding in large scale outside the US banking system, the US government can use political pressure (including sanctions) on countries where these sites are regulated or operating from. This is in addition of perusing criminal avenues through extradition treaties. 9- The U S enforcing agencies that were perusing individuals under the Wire ACT on US soil (Sporting Bet CEO and others) before the passing of the Online Gambling Funding Prohibition Law, are not going to allow a few gambling sites (Pokerstars, FT, UB, bet21, etc.) to break the law and make billions. They will use any means to stop the funding first, apply political pressure on the jurisdictions where these sites operate or seek criminal charges and resort to extraditions treaties when possible. The political pressure can be indirectly applied through other countries. 10- If sites resort to shady schemes to fund players accounts in large quantities, I believe the players’ money could be in jeopardy. 11- The big difference now that the new law has passed is not the online gambling is illegal but that US financial institutions are at risk of criminal charges and civil penalties. 12- States in the US also have the power to enforce their own laws. Some sites already blocked certain players in the US if they are located from a particular state. This is very significant because it means that the sites feel legally threaten by laws on those states. What will happen when the enforcement laws of the new ACT are applied across all states?? 13- As if the funding issue wasn’t enough, the new law also allows for blocking of Internet sites by your ISP. Sites that want to comply with the law may find a way to get your IP address from the client poker software running in your PC. Therefore, proxy serves are not a solution either. My opinion is that of course there will still few workarounds for the hardcore US poker player but no site will be able to manage and hide these transactions for 1000s of players. The fact is that the new law has the potential of enforcement 1000 greater than the Wire ACT. Financial institutions in general are a thousand times more regulated worldwide than other entities. In addition, probably 90% of financial institutions worldwide have to deal with the US banking /financial systems. A similar example of how enforcement changes everything is how these offshore tax shelters were abused initially by a few millionaires. When these transactions become available to the average Joe, the IRS started cracking down and many individuals got in trouble. Of course, a lot these schemes still go on but only few individuals have the resources to battle the IRS with an army of lawyers. The others risk significant trouble if they get caught. For the short term, you can enjoy the games but I believe as soon as the enforcing measures and guidelines are in place most sites will be forced to stop accepting US players. A few sites may offer workarounds for very high volume players but I doubt that a workable method of funding can be found for 1000s of players. The game skill argument seems also very grim, because a skillful player is still gambling. I hope a LEGAL workaround is possible through the courts but I don't see it happening in the short term.
Hrmm Of course, no one knows what the final outcome of all this is going to be until it happens. There are lots of different ways it can go. Are a lot of us that enjoy gambling online hoping it will get worked out and we can still play? Of course. I personally can't imagine that internet poker is going to come to an end. Is it wishful thinking? Maybe, I don't know. I do find it hard to believe that anyone who enjoys online gambling would refuse to have hope in this matter. Why are you so dead set in your pessimism? It seems as if you have other motivations for your stand on this issue.
I play poker on the internet , tournaments only as in cash games there is too much collusion. I would like to think it would keep going the way it was but being realistic I don't see it happening. The Govt. wants it shut down for several reasons mostly polictical (moral, the large B&M casino corporations, and the fact that the Govt. is not getting any taxes with all the money going overseas). And all it is going to take to shut out 80% of the U.S. players is cut off the easy funding sources.
Hey pokernut why don't you fight "fire with fire". Why can't you get anyone to collude with you? Probably, your just too cheery! tgun
If I wanted to cheat I wouldn't need any one else just use 2 or more computers, 2 different ISP's or even just a router and different accounts.
Eventually the dust will settle and there will be online gaming. Money is the only issue here. There is a lot of gambling in this country that is legal and apparently considered moral, simply because it is taxable. Sin taxes are very popular with segments of our society and with our politicians. Some of the people get to enjoy their moral indignation, and the politicians get to collect the money. The BM casinos and our corrupt politicians on both sides of the aisle could not allow a multi-billion dollar industry to exist without getting their cut. When the climate is right, both will be able to get their cut, and online gaming will be back. It takes money to buy votes and power. As long as gamblers are willing to squander their paychecks, the pols will figure a way. Some think they already have?
Pokernut, Maybe I'm being niave with this but I look at this, the gaming bill, as an opportunity to create new and innovative ways to fund the accounts. To every problem there is a solution and since the actual gaming is not illegal only the funding process....... How about internet gift cards? A company, based in say Aruba, Antigua, Costa Rica, etc., sells gift cards over the internet. These gift cards can be used for anything, to pay your MasterCard bill, Verizon phone, or even transfer money to say Neteller. Being that the company is offshore a cash transfer from Antigua to the Isle of Man isn't illegal. For a monthly fee a power of attorney is granted to the individual for making the necessary transfers, etc. Of course this is the readers digest version of this - the devil is in the details - but thoughts, suggestions? Am I way off course on this?
