Odd chip strategy

Is anyone using the idea of gaining an "odd number of chips" as a strategy?

In a tourney with minimum bets of 10, surrendering with a bet of 25, 75 etc... will create an odd number of chips. In a tight game, I found the extra 5 chips helped me stay ahead of someone who matched most of my bets, or pull ahead of someone by 5 points.

I now find myself betting 25 instead of 20 or 30, or betting 75 vs 70 or 80, incase a surrender makes sense.

What do you seasoned players think? Am I silly to be thinking this is helping my game? The last two of 3 tournies I've won were very very close ... both by 7.5 and 5 points.

I'm trying to tune up and this forum is superb. Thank you all in advance for your replies.

StackAttack aka STACKS

 

I do it

I'm not saying it is the best way, but yes I do it. Against a season player it really doesn't give you that much advantage, but yes it does work against newer players (sometimes anyway).

I feel anytime I can have another color of chips in front of me for the players at my table to have to count it just makes it harder for them to keep track of.

On several tournaments I have had players complain about "Those Damn $2.50 chips I have"...LOL. I love if it affects them.

I also tell the dealer "NOT" to color them up as long as they have enough in their tray.

Watch last years WSOB, a $1,000 was the minimum bet, but I put out a $500 chip with almost every bet just to try and mess with the other players. I also had more $500 chips then anyone at the table.

The ablity to count chips is a HUGE part of tournament play and the more chips and different color chips you can have in front of you just makes it harder for the other to count.

 

Can backfire

Which is easier to count:
1) A stack of 13 - $5 chips
2) A stack of 9 - $5 chips Plus a stack of 8 - $2.50 chips

Example 1: I find that counting a stack of 13 is more difficult. It would take several seconds for me to arrive at an accurate count of 13. Now multiply 13 x $5 = $???? Now we're getting into higher mathematics.:laugh: All kidding aside, this will take a few more seconds.

In example #2, I would count the stack of $2.50 rather easily since there are only 8 chips and I immediately know it's $20. Now, the $5 chips are normally right next to the $2.50 chips. The stack of $5 chips is 1 more than the stack of $2.50 and wallah, there are 9 without even counting. 9 x $5 is $45. Then add the $20 and you have $65.

I would know the total value of the chips in example #2 in as much time as it would take me just to count the 13 chips in example #1 - let alone multiply 13 x $5.

Now, I am not a great chip counter so I personally would prefer smaller stacks and more of them as opposed to a few large stacks. I may be wrong but that's my preference.

 

At least 18 high....

I don't even sweat counting chips with 13 or less, most players wouldn't. A stack to me is at least 18 chips or more high.

Now once I get a stack is when I really start trying to get more of a different color (value). Anytime you have more chips is always harder for others to count.

If you have less chips then the leaders it doesn't matter (as much) about what colors chips you have because your chasing anyway.

The multiple color chips (odd $2.50's) only help mess with the other players when your in the lead. If they don't have to count your chips what is the use in having them?

One drawback is late in the round and your cutting your chips in half for a possible split hand, make sure you count the chips and don't just stack them side by side. I have seen players make this mistake by stacking $2.50 chips up against $5's and they ended up short for their split.

 

About splitting in half

I see you point TX. You brought up another point I would like answered by you or anyone who would care to contribute.

If you are preparing to bet 1/2 your bankroll, 1) do you physically separate the bankroll into two equal piles or 2) do you count your total bankroll then count out 1/2 for the bet?

1) Physically separating the bankroll into two equal piles:
ADVANTAGE - being more assured that you are not making a mistake
DISADVANTAGE - makes it easier for opponents to get a accurate count

2) Count your total bankroll then count out 1/2 for the bet:
ADVANTAGE - makes it harder for opponents to get a accurate count
DISADVANTAGE - more likely to make a mistake as KennyE did in MDBJI

I have done it both ways but each time I wonder if I'm handling the situation correctly. I need opinions.

 

Count or split

I've done it both ways. I think now I tend to go ahead and split my chips up into equal piles just because it is easier for me to do that rather than worry with the math in my head. Usually I am thinking about a thousand other things at the time so it is easier to just do the stacks than to have one more thing to think about.

Just be careful if you split your stack and don't have an even count. The worst mistake is to push out the wrong stack (the bigger one) and then not be able to split. If I have an odd stack, I make them even and put the odd chip to the side. That helps prevent the mistake from happening.

Swog can affirm to my error, he saw me nearly do it on the cruise.



PS: If you wait until it is your turn to bet before starting to play with your chips, you can usually get more time to think because everyone will see that you are obviously dividing your chips into equal piles and you can do it slowly so that you have more time to think about other plays you might need to make depending on the cards that come out.

 

I always split mine

If I am having to split my stack at the end than more then likely I have to DD or split on the last hand anyway so who cares if they see my chip total. My main concern is winning the hand first of all then I can worry about what happens to the others.

If I am just covering myself for a possible DD, Split, or Blackjack I want to make 100% sure my split is even.

I have seen some of the BEST season players make mistakes by just counting, it is always better to split your chips into even stacks.

*NOTE: what I said in my earlier post, make damn sure you have the same value chips in each stack. If not color up and make them equal. It is the safest way not to screw up your bet.

 

Worst mistake

Some of us who were at UTE Mountain may remember the guy who made the mistake of not dividing his stacks correctly. He got two tens and wanted to split his hand, but when the dealer counted down both stacks he realized that he put the wrong stack out and didn't have enough to split. He then made the play no one could figure out, he doubled his twenty instead and busted. As it turned out, if he had just stood he would have advanced to the next round. I think he just lost it when he couldn't split.

 

Chip stacks:

Appreciate everything posted so far. But, questions. Some tourneys specify keeping chips of demonation, or color in one stack. I've also seen and heard,other players tell other players their stack was too high and to chop it down. Unless specified in the rules, I'd think u'd stack as high as possible.

Second: tourney rules, of not playing with u're chips till it's u're turn to bet. If upheld, would mean, u couldn't start splitting u're stack till u're turn to bet.

Comments? Thoughts?

 

Free Info

Setting your bet up is not playing with your chips.But setting it up before it's your turn to bet is just like having to bet in front of your opponent and not after them.Do not give your opponent any advance information .Unless of course you want to show them that bet and then put a different bet out. I have done that trick a couple of times and it really worked .It was just like me making their bet for them .You should have seen the look on their face when I changed my bet :joker:

 

Stack size and "playing" with chips

I've stacked chips high often, especially quarters, if I have a lot of them. I've also seen TX do the same, although he stacks much neater (no steps) and lines up the strips perfectly. I have never been asked by another player to chop my stack down but if it did happen I would politely say something like "I kind of like the way they look this way. Makes me feel like I have a lot of money. I think I'll keep them this way, thank you."

On another note, I was playing in a tournament at CAESARS INDIANA. I was counting my chips when the dealer said to me "You cannot play with your chips ,sir." I politely replied "I'm not playing with them, I'm counting them". The dealer responded back "You cannot handle your chips except when it is your turn to bet or to remove your winning from the betting circle". I guess it depends on how strict the casino and/or dealer wants to enforce the rules.

 

The famous owner dealer....

Once in a while you get a dealer that thinks he owns the casino or that he is the top dog. You just have to deal with them, just because they want to acted like a JERK doesn't mean you have to.

Don't argue with them just go along with what they ask, but that doesn't mean you have to let them push you around if they break the rules or try to count your chips for another player (which I have seen done).

Now in this situation simple stop the dealer and call for the pit boss. Sometimes you just get in a no win situation.

One player on this site (I won't mention his name) was in a tournament at a Vegas casino and hit a BJ late with most of his money out. He told the dealer he was good but the dealer did nothing, so he waved his hand over his chips again saying he was good and the dealer hits him.

WHAT THE HELL, the dealer said the player wave for a hit! What happened was the player went to the right side of his chips and lifted his hand up passed his chips and when he motioned his hand back over his chips the dealer said it was a motion calling for a card.

What probably happened was either the player had PISSED of the dealer before or their was a BIG VIP player at his table that tips well that the dealer wanted to win. End results the player got screwed.

This rarely happens (seen it twice in 21 years), but you catch a table like that and you better win by a big margin so they can't take it away from you.

 

Chips & stacking:

Yes, Yes, Tool and Tex. great comments.

But maybe that's an area for UBT rules committee to look at.

What I said in previous post was what I have observed. And not to cry, but most of the A hole dealers, TX refers to, I've had. From string bets, behind the circle to chip "playing" to being called for ten seconds to bet and ten seconds to play as soon as I was up. I told one kindly fellow, at least give me the ten seconds. And of my own accord I have been called and penalized for not betting sooon enough. Fair enough. All these are over time and I guess you only remember the evil that happens to you. Come to think of it, I've had some dealers inadvertenly help me. I sure didn't complain then.

Just hope when the gaabazillions is at stake, everyone gets a fair shake on those particulars.

If it is in the rules, that are handed out, you'd expect them to be enforced evenly. As Tex says, call the floor and then roll with the punches.

And if there is one bit of advice I could pass on to any tourney players, that I think is as important as chip counting or corelating, it would be read and know the rules, before you start play. Oh, and practice not stringing.

 

Thats a given!

If you don't know the rules for each tournament, why even play? Especially the surrender rule.

As far as the string bet, I wish they would lose that garbage. As long as you put your bet in before the next player it doesn't matter in blackjack. Poker is the only place a string bet has any effect on the other players.

Tournaments that call string bet for the first chip dropped are so stupid. And allowing players to pull back a bet after it is in the betting circle because they bet out of turn are two of the worst rules at blackjack tournaments. They are only in because the tournament director saw them in another tournament, they serve no purpose.

 

Two more...

Here are another two rules that drive me crazy and need to be changed.

1. No DD on Blackjack. Why not allow this, if you are behind and need a DD to win your screwed if you hit a BJ, (whats wrong with that picture).

2. Double downs have to be in whole chip amounts. Once again why? If I want to put a $2.50 chip on my DD what does it hurt? The propose of whole bets on your original bet is in case you hit a BJ so the dealer can pay you off with the correct amount. On a DD you don't have to worry about a 3 to 2 payoff so why not allow it.