Official format and rules for the $10,000 One on One event

This thread is for those players who have already commited to playing in this event and all others seriously interested in registering. All other please post any replys on the other threads.​

Thank you,​

Rick​

One on One Match Play $10,000 entry tournament​

The first 16 players to sign up and pay their $10,000 entry for this tournament will be allowed to play. Any others will be wait listed.

The format will be similar to the Olympic format, as we will have the players pick for the groups. There will be four groups (Spade, Hearts, Diamonds, & Clubs) of four players in each group, each player will play the best 3 out of 5 matches with the other three members in their group. The top two players will advance into the second round.

In the second, and third rounds players will only play one best 3 out of 5 matches to advance. In the finals there will be a best 4 out of 7 matches to determine the champion.

There will be a 30 second time limit for the first 9 hands and 1 minute for the final 5 hands in each match of each round. There will be one count after the 9th hand. Each match will consist of 14 hands and will be scheduled on the half hour and all matches will be a best 3 out of 5 to determine the winner until the finals, which will be the best 4 of 7 matches.

Round I:

Schedule: Wednesday 8/15/2007 - 10:00 am – 6:30 pm.

This schedule will be used in each group.
10:00 am - A vs. B and C vs. D.
Lunch at 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm.
1:30 pm – A vs. C and B vs. D.
4:00 pm - A vs. D and B vs. D.
Dinner at 6:30 pm – 7:30 pm.

Spade group will play at tables #1 & #2.
Club group will play at tables #3 & #4.
Hearts group will play at tables #5 & #6.
Diamond group will play at tables #7 & #8.

Round II:

Schedule: Wednesday, 7:30 pm – 10:00 pm.

Top bracket players “A” play at table #1 while players “B” play at table #2.
Bottom bracket players “A” play at table #3 while players “B” play at table #4.

Round III:

Schedule: Thursday 8/16/2007 - 10:00 am – 12:30 pm

The winners of the top bracket player “A” will play the winner “B” on table #1.
The winners of the bottom bracket player “A” will play the winner “B” on table #2.

Finals:

It has been suggested that the finals will be played up stairs on the stage in the auditorium where they can film the final table and show it on the big screen TV’s for everyone to see.

Schedule: Thursday, 8/16/2007 - 2:00 pm – 5:30 pm.

The winners of the top bracket plays the winner of the bottom bracket in a best 4 out of 7 one on one final matches to determine the winner.

I think this is the fairest way to host this event and it will work within the time we have to host it.
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All TBJPA rules will apply with the exception of the tie rule. Due to the differance in match play vs. elimination any and all ties in the first round will be handled as follows:
In a case of a tie the player or players with the best records in their 3 series of best 3 out of 5 matches will advance. In case there may still a tie, they will play a single match with the winner or winners will adavnce to Round II.

Example: should two players win 2 matches an lose 1. Their matches would decide who advanced to round two.

Player A won match #1 3-1 (+2), won match #2 3-0 (+3), and lost match #3 2-3 (-1) for a total of +4.

Player B lost match #1 3-2 (-1), won match #2 3-1 (+2), and won match #3 3-1 (+2) for a total of +3.

So Player A would advance with a +4 over Players B +3 total.

All other TBJPA rules are posted at www.TBJPA.com and they will be posted on site as they were in May.
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As far as deposits, I will post at a later time how they will be handled.

 

Count me out...AGAIN

Rick, no matter how many times you try to bust your own thread to erase my response, it will not go away. And so here it is again for the THIRD time:
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Rick, what little respect I had left for you is now completely gone. You have done nothing but create a tournament to exploit players and make yourself an incredible amount of money for doing nothing in return except post a few messages here & send a misleading email. I am *incredulous* that you have now gone from dodging to simply refusing to answer where this $10,000 vig is going -- this would be **unheard of** in ANY other tournament. Players ALWAYS know how much goes to the house and EXACTLY what % of that money is being withheld for dealers. The fact that you say you will take care of the dealers out of this $10k but then refuse to say HOW MUCH is absolutely ridiculous -- for all we know, you are handing them $500 and keeping the rest for yourself when you have NO OVERHEAD for this event.

I feel insulted & exploited by your shameless attempt to make this kind of money off of us. No one says you can't make $$$ for putting it together but this is obviously a very low blow -- and yet you keep hiding behind the fact that you're just keeping all this money because some random tournament player who brought this idea up to you thought that $10k would be fair. Well, Rick, as you can see now that you've brought this up to the rest of us (who have the means & interest to play in it, that is) -- it is most certainly NOT fair, & completely out of line for the circumstances involved. This is NOT a huge event, there is virtually NO overhead, and ZERO promotion. You repeatedly refuse to disclose essential details about WHERE this $10k is going, and you expect ANYONE to play?

I'm glad you have an "interest list" but for now you can COUNT ME OUT, as well as any other self-respecting pro who knows better than to pay the bills of a con man. For years you have excelled at putting the cart before the horse, and for me, this is the last time i take any stock in what you say. The fact is, you love to post incessantly about things that you haven't even come close to finalizing, as if its 'almost' a done deal. Try this out for size: wait until you have the pieces together, THEN post about it. And give up the tired "i'm just doing what's best for the tournament community" spiel because from the beginning its been obvious that you're out for #1 buddy -- just lookin' to make a buck. Making money is fine but your underhanded tactics are beyond me. And if i see you post another 5% discount code for American Airlines, a cruise ship line, or a car rental place "to help us save money" when in reality you're just making referral fees off of all of us, i'm gonna scream!

ps: one last item of interest. i took the liberty of calling up the River Palms yesterday to talk to them about the $10k buyin tournament that they are hosting...got connected to the 21 pit & spoke to someone who was pretty informed about the tournaments you're offering that week in August. Well lo and behold, he knew absolutely NOTHING about any $10k buy-in, even laughing at it & saying "i think one of the events might pay $10k for first place, but there's no $10k buy-in!" Strange, considering we would be paying YOU $10k in house vig to put this event on -- further proof that you are completely cutting out the middleman, shorting the dealers, and pocketing everything for yourself. Thanks, Rick, but NO THANKS.


-hd.

 

No problem

So now we're back to 7 players for this event. Thanks for your feedback.

 

Who are the 7 players that are playing this event? That should be available for anyone thinking about playing this tournament.

Can we see a list of the players?


Joep

 

What gives?

I’m confused (surprise) but this is what you said on May 21, 2007. Now less than 2 weeks later you call Rick “con man”? Did I miss something?

Dave, if you don’t want to play that’s your choice. You had great ideas about the format and I agree with you on the double down card. You knew about the “vig” up front, as indicated by your post on the 21st so what gives?

From my understanding the 10,000 in this will go to cover the dealers, the dealers tips, casino fees, and Rick’s profits. Now how much will Rick make out the 10,000? I don’t care and frankly does it really matter?

When you used to play online at Bet21.com at the 100 SNG tables did you ask yourself, I wonder when that 9.00 fee goes? How much is Russ Hamilton getting of the 63.00 collected for the 100 table? Hell no. You played at that table because you though you have the best chance to take the other players to the mat.

At the last UBT Circuit event how much did the dealers get from the 3,600 that was collected from the entry fees? You don’t have an answer because it wasn’t important to you. You just wanted to compete in the UBT event and win.

As for calling the casino and them not knowing about this event – good detective work there.

I’m not here to defend Rick – I’m just trying to figure out why for the life of me, the “pro players” like you, Joe, Kenny E, all of Team UBT (especially the poker ‘converts’ on the latest All In cover) can’t get together and play in an event like this that showcases skill and minimizes the amount of luck.

 

Fred are you really telling me you dont see a PROBLEM here ?

You of all people who like to turn over every rock in the garden to see what appears,now want to brush off a sitution where some of the players who see a potential mis-justice and are pointing out a sitution where all of the facts are not being presented for all to see. To this you tell us " What Gives"

Joep

 

NO - Explain what to me and other BJT.com members what the problem is.

I see a BJT with 16 people - showcasing skill and minimizing luck

I see a location - River Palms

I see a date - August

I understand that 6.25% of the entry fee will go towards the "overhead" including the pay for the dealers and tips

I see the format - pretty cool actually

I see a prize pool of 150,000 but the actual distribution has not been fully explained

I read a lot of complaining from "pros" who aren't even playing

Now maybe I'm missing the boat but I didn't see you asking Russ Hamilton these questions. I didn't read about you asking the Gold Nugget these questions when I saw you there at a recent BJT. Did you ask Eric Woods how much his dealers were making in tulsa? I didn't hear a peep from you asking Kevin Belinkoff where the profits from WSOB went or how much he made from that event or how much the GSN television revenues were, etc...

I see that certain people are upset that a certain individual may get a few thousand dollars to organize an event. Is that against the law? Is this the Soviet Union? I thought this was the USA where capitalism reigned supreme.

So I ask you again, please, write about this misjustice that is/was about to take place with this tournament?

P.S. Joe maybe YOU should host a 10,000 event at your house and only charge a $5,000 fee.

 

Fred Fred Fred

Are you really asking to ask or is your Photo Shop down for today and you have nothing better to do.

The problem is there for all to see except you it seems.

Rick even knows its a problem and that why he is dodging the question.

A simple one I might add

How is the $10,000 being spent ?

is $3,000 going to the dealers or is $300 going to the dealers

is the River Palms getting $3,000 for 16 players or are they getting the same fee they got back in May which was $600 . Yes they received 15 per player for the 150 event which works out to $600

As you can see they are many questions that should be answered about this 10,000 fee.

One other note I'm not going to keep on responding to every question you have for me today. I have stated what I think needs to be done and why its needs to be done.

Now as far as me having questions for the GN ,they handed me all the information on the tournament when I signed up.On top of that i was not putting up any entry fee to play.When in Rome do as the Romans do I was invited to play for free and i showed up,but all the information was there for me and every player who was entered into the event.

When Kenny and I had Russ Hamilton on the radio show I asked him many questions as you could have done as the phone lines were open to all.

As far as Eric Woods and Tulsa goes there was no need to ask him any question everything that was done was done out in the open and above board. The dealer made their money from the players who paid $5 for an extra $200 in chips,case closed.

When I played on the WSOB 2 I didn't have to ask Kevin Belinkoff what the bottom line was he told us what the prize structure was and again I had no entry fee into it. I wasn't contributing to the prize pool so my concerns were not there.

But when I'm asked to put up money for an event then I along with the other players have the right to ask where the money is going and who is getting what.

Get that photo shop up and running again because you should be all out of questions now as I have cover them all for you.


Joep
​

 

More like zero players, considering your host casino doesn't even know this event is taking place. Putting the cart before the horse again? Maybe if you paid the River Palms a couple hundred dollars out of the $10 grand you're trying to scam us all out of, they'd actually have a clue what was going on.

Are you kidding me, Fred? So you're saying that if Rick pays the casino $500 and tips the dealers $500 (and those figures are probably pretty generous), and pockets the other $9000 for himself while doing absolutely no promotion, marketing, or other overhead costs whatsoever (last i checked, posting on ken's site was free), this is fair? Give me a ****ing break. It amounts to little more than running a scam on the tournament blackjack community.

Why do YOU care anyway? You're not even playing in this event, so excuse me if i say your opinion here is meaningless. I will no longer play in the event (as well as many other professional players) because of Rick's grossly inappropriate fee as well as his underhanded tactics of avoiding the full disclosure of fee distribution that is available for ANY OTHER TOURNAMENT. He will not respond because he knows he is pulling a con and does not want to be found out, plain and simple. So now I feel like it is my responsibility as one of the more visible members of the tournament blackjack community to call out this scam artist for what he is.

It is not about what exact 'expenses' there are (ie, a breakdown of how much Rick's phone bill is, the salary of the floormen on duty at the tournament, etc) but rather a simple explanation of what % of this $10k vig is going to a) dealer tips b) host casino and c) Rick. Everyone has a right to make a profit, but not to exploit players and withhold this kind of information. To be honest, many believe the $10k fee is still way too high considering the tiny scope of this event regardless of the actual % distribution, but the fact remains that if everything is all above board, there should be no problem disclosing the information. Every casino & tournament on Earth includes a basic breakdown of fees. its the little blurb that reads something like this "2% of the prizepool is being withheld for dealer gratuities."


I think this issue is as painfully clear as it can be. Maybe someone other than Fred (ie, players who are actually going to consider playing this event) would like to chime in.

Oh wait, nevermind. The event will never actually happen, since at this point no one would be crazy enough to give Rick $10k to put on an event the host casino doesn't even know is happening. Vote of confidence there, buddy! You go, con man!

-hd.

 

How may decks ...

...will be used?

 

6 deck shoe

A six deck shoe will be used, dealt face up.

 

Is my math right?

Buy in and fees = 9,375+625

16 players

Prize pool = 150,000 fees = 10,000
Dealers tips = included in fees

Total fees = 10,000 from a prize pool of 160,000 = 6.25%

Fees per player = 10,000/16 = $625.00

Payoff 4/16 = 25%

Games played by players: minimum 9 games and lose all (3/5 vs 3 players)
Games played by winner: minimum 16 games and win all
Maximum 32 games (5 games vs 3 players round 1)
(5 games vs 1 player round 2)
(5 games vs 1 player round 3)
(7 games vs 1 player final)

A recently held “big money” event

Buy in and fee = 2,500+200

61 players

Prize pool = 152,500 – fees = 12,200

Dealers tips = 3% of 152,500 = 4,575
TOC seat = 10,000

Total fees = 12,200+4,575+10,000 = 26,775 from a prize pool of 152,500 = 17.56%

Fees per player = 26,775/61 = $438.93

Payoff 12/63 = 19%

Games played by players: minimum 2 (double elimination)
Games played by winner: minimum 3 rounds
Maximum 4 rounds (if got eliminated in 1st round)

Now this event was televised for CBS so there’s overhead there but why should the BJ players care about this unless they are getting royalties from the TV broadcast. Any overhead for a televised event should, in my opinion, be the responsibility of the party making the money from the event and filming it. In fact I believe that the party filming the event should contribute money to the final table equal to that paid to extras on a movie set as determined by the screen actors guild. (just my opinion)

So between these two events which is the better deal?

 

FG, of course your reasoning is valid. But you need to consider one thing that might be in action here, many of the players were sponsored as UBT team players which in a way is being employed by UBT. Maybe some dont pay the vig, some dont pay the entry fee, some have a full float room board and travel etc etc. In other words maybe some are spoiled rotten. For them its dont punch a gift horse in the mouth. Just give that horse some sugar.

 

This is UTTER CRAZINESS...

Friends:

I have personally talked with Rick Jensen, Joe Pane, Kenny Smith and numerous others about everything going on regarding this $10,000 Event. I told kenny that I was going to stay out of the fray, but feel compelled to say what's on my heart and mind...

I, for one, will play in this Event, and look forward to the competition along with the potential payout on the back end. I know exactly what is being taken out as "Vig", and really don't care how much of the $10,000 is going into Rick's pockets. Having said this, I recommended to Rick that he disclose the exact breakdown regarding dealer's tokes, his fees, etc. It is his decision as to how he wants to handle my recommendation, although in the absence of his agreement in this regard, I have still decided that I want to be a participant in this first of it's kind Event.

All of the name calling and complaining regarding this Event by certain Members of this Forum is not accomplishing a damn thing, other than to fuel the fires of bitterness and discontent with the manner in which they are presenting their arguement.

I have an idea, that's fairly straightforward and simple; If you like the Event, and like the potential payout, than put your money up and PLAY! Otherwise, stop the name calling, bitching and complaining, and watch from the sidelines as someone takes home $75,000-$85,000 for an Event that cost them $10,000 to enter.

Definitely no need for any Member of this Community to call another member of this Community a "Con/Scam Artist"! If I were on the receiving end of that comment directed at me, I'd be in my Attorney's Office quicker than you could say "Huge Litigation and Potential Liability".

This has gotten out of hand, and I for one, along with many others with whom I've talked, have had enough...

Put your money up, or don't put your money up for this Event, but for your own sake, stop the DESTRUCTIVE and LIBELOUS rhetoric, before you end up having some serious problems for yourself. Problems that could ultimately cost you a hell of a lot more than this $10,000 Entry Fee for an Event that you obviously have no desire or balls to participate in anyway.

And yes, you know who I'm talking about Hollyweed...

Make it a GREAT DAY, and try to do something constructive with your time today, so that when you retire for the evening, you can look back and think about the positive things you said and did during the day. Try it, you might like it. Who knows, you might even get the best night's sleep you've had in a long long time...

This is all I'm going to say about this issue! If you want to personally attack me for my view and stance, than feel free to go right ahead, but I caution you and anyone else reading this, to use extreme caution with how you respond, because I'm in no mood for any possible "Personal Attacks"!!!

It's a shame that I couldn't get into your pocket for this Event Davey, but the time will come when you will have to either 'PUT UP" or "SHUT UP" for an amount that's ONE HUNDRED times larger than this $10,000, and everyone will be able to see what you got...

Yes, $1,000,000!! Just you and me, and possibly a National TV audience. Bring it "Bad Boy"!

The "Real Bad Boy of Blackjack"... aka Dreamer aka UBTerminator

Skipper

P.S. You may want to stay with Poker for the time being, while continuing to contemplate how you are going to try to take me down for $1,000,000 sometime in the future... I look forward to seeing you as you watch from the Audience at the River Palms in August for the $10,000 Event, as I compete for the $85,000...

 

Well said - How many more to get to 16?

 

Dreamer is right on!

Dreamer, you said it all. Hope somebod(ies) listen.

 

River Palms TBJPA Tournament in August

I feel that I should post a response to some of the posts in this thread.

I am the Table Games Manager at the River Palms and I apologize if someone on my staff was ill informed about this upcoming tournament. We will be hosting Rick and the TBJPA again in August and are looking forward to it. We are also looking forward hosting this $10,000.00 event.

I hope to have a registration code for all that plan on attending by tomorrow afternoon.

If I can answer any other questions, please feel free to contact me @ dhiggy@riverpalms.net.

Thank you,

Dan Higginbotham

 

Thanks for the post Dan

Thanks for posting Dan, I am sure that helps assure everyone that their are no issues about when and where the events are being held now.

Well I was contacted tonight by two more interested players for the $10,000 One on One match play event.

That is now 9 players that have said they want to play in this event. I am working on how and where they can send in their deposits and should have it set up by the end of the week. Once the players deposits are in, is when I'll confirm they are in the event.

Funny, I wasn't sure how many players we might get for this event, however it is starting to look like it may fill up with the full 16 players.

On paper I like this format, if this event works out I may try it again with a lower entry and more players.

How does 64 players at $1,000 entry sound? But due to the time we may have to make a few changes, maybe best 2 out of 3 matches and lower the number of hands to 10. Or even a just one match, but play a double elimination bracket.

Lots of interesting possiblities with this format.

 

Having some experience with tournaments in the past, I think you could run a much fairer tournament with a different round-robin round.

The problem with 3 best-of-5 round robins are:
1. Some series will last much longer than others.
2. having a match lost by 3-2 is equal to an 3-0 shutout.
but most importantly:
3. Who gets to bet last in the pivotal 5th game is critical and will be based on just luck (referred to as home field advantage in this post).

What I would recommend is to split the field into 2 brackets and each player plays each of the other players in their bracket twice, letting each player have position once. Then, simply total up the wins for each player, and the top four advance to the elimination rounds. For the elimination rounds, bracket A1 vs. B4, A2 v. B3, etc.

Advantages include:
1. Using total wins in a balanced 14-match round-robin is more likely to produce the top 4 overall in a bracket then series wins would, especially considering the randomness of "home-field advantage".
2. Using a larger round-robin field would lessen the impact of a bad pool draw.
3. There will be exactly 14 preliminary games, instead of 9 to 15.
4. Everyone will play the same amount of "home and away" games.
5. Using their pool seeding, you can make "home field advantage" in the elimination rounds based on the preliminary rounds instead of an arbitrary coin flip. There will never need to determine position by a coin flip until possiby the championship game.
6. The sytem can fairly handle any even number of entrants fairly and is more fair for an odd number of entrants. The current system is only fair if there are multiple of 4 entrants
7. This matches time-tested methods for qualifying rounds for events like world cup soccer and bridge.

The only caveat I would include is that there should be a match award of $100/game or so paid out of the prize pool to each match winner so that a player is still incentivised to try to win games after he has been mathematically eliminated.

 

Sounds pretty good...

I'm going to run some numbers and do a simulation using this format vs. the other format, but just off the top of my head I like your suggestion.

I'll run it by a few others to see if they can spot any flaws in the format.

Reguardless of if we use this format or not, it was very useful back, thanks toonces.

The one thing I see is 28 matches will have to be played for sure in the first round, (14 in each half of the bracket).