In UBT if you happen to tie for low bankroll on an elimination hand, you wind up heads up with the other person with a $10000 bankroll and play two hands heads up to determine the winner. Question is: What is the optimum bet if you are betting first on first hand? Seems to me that $5000 is good choice. If the other person matches your bet a swing pretty well locks the game. If it looks like the other player might swing you, then surrender. That leaves you $7500 on next hand to their $15,000, which still gives you a shot. Any thoughts on this or a better bet?
Take the Low Um, Reachy…better check you maths again. :laugh: The starting BR is 10,000 each. Betting 7,500 leaves you with 2,500 so you can’t make a full double. All you can do is go all-in and end with 20,000. Likewise, a max bet DD is not possible for either player as your BR going in is the maximum bet you can make. Pat, the percentage play for heads-up with equal BR is to take the low. Going first, your 5,000 bet allows opponent to take the low on you. Furthermore, he can bet to be able to give up that low and DD for the high if the cards warrant it. See the discussion in the the thread Tiebreaker Betting Question I would bet the minimum to preclude that. If you get the swing on the first hand of the two, anything you bet gives you a lead; therefore allowing you to get both the high and the low with a matching bet on the second hand. --jr
Low didn't work I did as you suggested Jackaroo, bet $500. My opponent bet $5000. He won his taking him to $15,000. I think I pushed, left me with my orginal $10,000. He follows up with bet of $5000, leaving me in position to only go all in to maybe tie if we both win. Unfortunately he draws a BJ which leaves me locked out. I will check out the other link to see if it covers my question. Thanks. Pat PS: Maybe I went to low..... PSS: I did check the link and it is different situation, one hand. In UBT we get two hand playoff, so it might involve different strategy.
Lol Thanks Jackaroo, I cocked up again, brain fried at present, was equating it to another scenario I came across a while back where you could have DD for the full amount. Oops! Cheers Reachy
I am in no way shape or form a pro, but I also believe the $5000 bet is the best choice. You are left with many options and outs with this bet. If they take the low (i.e. bet 500) and win to your loss you are still only behind 5500. And if the first hand is really bad you can always surrender, which only puts them 3000 ahead. You also have the option of doubling if they go all in and get a good hand. Not to mention since you are betting last on the final hand that gives you many more options as to what to do in that hand to counter bad cards in the first hand. I fear taking the low opens the door for them to get too much of a lead in the first hand (which it appears happened to you). And of course going all in is never a good idea IMO when it isn't the final hand or you are in a situation where there is no other option. Like I said, I do not know if this is the actual best play, but I can't see any other bet that gives you more options given any cards you get.
Why not go low? Personally I like the low. Why not bet only $500 if your betting first. Let them decide if they want to go for it or not. I can promise you that if you are playing me and you start of with a big bet I will play $500 less (or possiblly a $1,000) than you in 2nd postion. Think about what you would bet in 2nd postion if someone came out with a $5,000 bet on the first hand of the playoff. Now you could be down $10,500 if they win a $5,000 DD and you lose $500, but that is just part of the game, it happens. But more than not the dealer wins and you could have at least a $500 lead (or more) going into the last hand. If that is the case then you bet $500 again and they have to hope for a win on their last hand, even a push will lose it for them. I can't remember if you get a new secret bet or not in the playoff, but you have to think about that as well.
Leaving yourself with the most options Rick, The more I think about it, I think the $500 bet leading off is the worst bet you can make. It leaves you with no way to win if the other player puts out $5000 and doubles down to win and you get swung. Putting out the $5000 gives you a lot more options to stay in the game for hand two. I kept thinking, maybe $4500 is better, or maybe even $2500, but I still like $5000 the best. Now what to play if you are betting second on hand one and the lead puts out $5000. I agree with you, take the low by $500. It keeps you in the game for the second hand and prevents a lock. I was almost locked out on hand 2 with my $500 bet. Had I lost it, the game was over. You can use your secret bet in the playoff if you have it still to use. In fact in my case, I did have it and used it to hide my $500 bet, which might have lead the other person to split their bankroll which turned out to be the optimal bet, although maybe it wasn't....that is another question. Pat
You can use your Secret Bet once in the playoff if you haven't used it already. Also keep in mind that a playoff can happen in the middle of an event, meaning that if you burn your Secret Bet in the playoff and win, wou don't get it back for the rest of the round.
Interesting Is our Rick being honest about his playing strategy when he tells his opponents about how he would play a hand against them? Or could it possibly be that he may be sending out some disinformation on here in order to gain the advantage. Remember this post by him and let’s see if he sticks by it. Andy
I disagree. You are correct that if the opponent bets $5K, doubles down and wins a swing, you are dead. But you would have been dead on a swing regardless of what you bet. Why not play for the 57% of the hands you oppoent loses and take the opportunity to match his 2nd bet for an 82% chance to win the table. If the opponent wins and you are not swung, there's alwats a chance to win on a swing yourself, plus you will often get the opportunity to play for either the high or low yourself.
Sorry it's me again Maybe somewhere in the torrents of c**p I spout there maybe some useful information. Maybe not. Anyway, the Gospel according to Wong, page 131, Table 4 tells us that if we minimum bet/take the low in a heads-up, two handed game we have a 50% chance of being ahead on the final hand, add in the double push and you have a chance of 51% of not being behind. Therefore we have a 49% chance of being behind (funny that!) Reverse the above if you take the high! If our opponent duplicates our bet we have a 19% chance of being ahead, the same chance of being behind and a 62% chance of being even on the final hand. In other words you have an 81% chance of not being behind. So if you are betting first it's marginally better to take the low because that way you have the best chance of being in the lead on the final hand plus you'll be betting last. If you bet last on the first hand you should duplicate exactly what your opponent does to reduce your risk of being BR2 on the final hand when you have to bet first. Bet the minimum on the final hand and force your opponent to make a decision. Of course he could duplicate your bet and this thing could go on forever! Let the swing determine it. I think that if you are 2nd to act and you decide to take the high you should bet £5.5K more than 1st to act. That way if you win you guarantee a greater than 1/2 max bet lead over your opponent and can take the absolute high and the absolute low on the final hand giving you and 81% chance of success. Once again, I apologise for my posts. Cheers Reachy
Not sure still I agree that having the low is the best position to be in when the bets are down in hand one, and having the high is the best position to be in on hand two, but the question that still bothers me is this. Is there an optimum bet to prevent you from getting shut out on hand two? I believe a swing is not as likely as correlating, both win or both lose. Assuming you lose more than win by a slight margin, the low is desireable. But if your opponent wants to shut you out from going to round 2, your opponent betting after you needs to bet enough to prevent you from doubling up your remaining bankroll to catch him on the second hand. Betting $5000 seems to prevent them from doing that. Maybe $4900 is better or something lower. But I think to prevent your opponent from having an opportunity to lock you out completely you have to lead with a bet higher than $500. $5000 puts the burden on their back to choose, high or low.
Someone once told me... I do recall being given some advice a while back about betting in the middle, neither high or low, to give your opponents something to think about and, like you said, make them take the decision on high or low, and make it difficult for them to bet contrarian. Of course if they take the low option they are more likely to be ahead in hand 2 than you but only just Cheers Reachy
If you bet $5,000 going first in the playoffs I'll bet no more than $4,500 I promise you that. I can always DD or split if I need to, but I'll take the low starting off. Now if you bet $500 starting off against me I will come back with bigger bet (trying for the lead, remember I would be leading off on the 2nd hand) and I want the lead. I am not telling anyone how to do it or if it is the correct way, I am just telling you how I would play it. Most players, hate to bet small and take the low, (I think it makes them feel like they have no control or something...LOL). Start tracking how many times you could have won by taking the low and maybe you'll change your mind, if not it's your opinion and your money so play the way you like.
Now I'm Low Okay Rick I now believe you and will endeavour to follow the above strategy. I also take your point on players finding it difficult to take the low because I am one of them. For some reason I get scared about betting low on important hands (it’s just not in my nature) and maybe this is something that I need to think about when I look to improve my game. Andy
Play the way your comfortable Andy, just because I would play it that way doesn't mean that is how you should. It is your money and your game, I suggest you play it the way your most comfortable playing it. If it works for you great, if not then you can always change it around later. Just remember the worst way is to change it all the time, it becomes a guessing game to which is the right way. Once you decide how your going to play it just do it and hope for the best. All you can do is try and play the highest percentage play for YOUR hand and even then the best play isn't always the winning one. Guess thats why they call it GAMBLING...LOL
Think I am seeing the light I believe my confusion on this issue probably deals with the numbers versus the underlying principle. Bankroll and max bet is irrelevant. The low is the most important factor. Given that, change roles. What is the best bet for playing second? Is it to match the minimum or if you are going to take the high go high enough to either get a lock or possibly surrender to play one more hand which would require a swing for sure?
