Orleans tournament

Congratulations to Andrew (Jack) Bell and Thrasht for making the finals today at the Orleans blackjack tournament.

I believe Thrasht took 4th place and Jack took 3rd (I am not 100% sure on Jack finish).

 

Another low turnout

On an earlier post I read that the Orleans only had 80 players for this weeks tournament. Last night I learned they only had 72 players and the first place was cut to $19,000.

This is not a good sign for future tournaments. Now as Ken posted, the Boyd group bans several players from their tournaments, but not even counting the banned players I still expected over double for a free semi-invitational event. Actually I would expect 175 plus on the low side.

Here are my thoughts on why this event didn't draw in the players, let me know what y'all think?

1. Banned players cost them about 30 local players and another 40 or more nation wide.

2. Having no other events scheduled around the Orleans event, where players could play in multiple events on one trip. The Stardust always had other events either before or after their tournaments.

3. Christmas time, money is tight and several just couldn't afford to go play.

4. The economy, right now it sucks and many players just can't afford to risk the money to gamble on playing in a tournament along with the other expense that come with each event, (travel, rooms, food, entries, re-buys, and misc).

5. The Orleans just didn't allow the players in because of not enough time in or to low of betting average.

I think it is a combination of all 5 reasons, which one do you think is the main reason?

 

I think it's a combo of all 5.

For Deb and I, #4 rules the roost bigtime. :cry:

P.S. Congrats to Thrasht and Jack for a fine tournament!

 

Leftnut, I am sure that #4 is one of the biggest reasons, if not the biggest for most players.

One other issue that comes to mind about the smaller turnouts at land based events, years ago when the Vegas tournaments brought in 300 to 600 + players is, back then we didn't have as many casinos around the country and no on line casinos as well.

We simply lost players who use to travel to Vegas for these events, but now can stay closer to home and can get there gambling or tournament fix locally or in the comfort of their own home.

Where online poker has helped them build up the WSOP, I believe online blackjack has hurt the land based blackjack tournaments.

Global-Player was nice, one tournament each week and sometimes two. Now for several players they love as many tournaments as they can play in, but for the majority of players I think to much is and was a bad thing. I have found that many players lost more money then they wanted by try to play in every online event and this ended up costing them the money they needed for land based events.

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

Correction to Tex's post!

This Orleans tourney was NOT free. Entry was $350 (included 3 nights room)
and limited reentries were $150

Billy C

 

Having attended The Orleans tournament, my opinion on TXtourplayer's five possible reasons for low attendence;

1. Disagree, banned Orleans (Stardust) players are not exclusive and new to
this event to adversely affect attendance compared with prior recent
(1 to 3 year) events.

2. Disagree, prior Orleans tournaments have drawn well as stand alone
events with 150 to 200 plus players.

3. Possibly if item number 4 is considered, Xmas has not historically reduced
attendance significantly at Boyd events.

4. Maybe the main culprit among the non hard-core Orleans BJ tournament
players that comprised 30 to 40 percent of the field this year.

5. Possibly but it was a paid entry, semi-invitational.

Not an afterthought but congratulations to Thrasht for his great play.

 

Congrats to Thrasht

With 3 hands to go, Thrasht went for the win.
He lost a big double down which took him out of contention.
But, he went for the gold which is the mark of a true Champion.

 

Tex, I'll take your reason #5

The Orleans has a certain time and average bet criteria for an invitation to their tournaments. Curiously enough, action at any other Boyd casinos isn't recognized. You have to play at the Orleans.

Your reason #1: I seriously doubt that there are 30 locals who are banned. Nationally, I don't know.
I just don't think that that type of player would be interested in playing at the Orleans.

Reason#2: Could be the very reason for playing in this tournament. BJ tournaments around this time of year are few and far between.

Reason#3 and reason #4 both relate to affordability. Regardless of the season, time of year, or economy, a prudent individual would play only if he/she could afford it. The others would do well to contact Gambler's Anonymous.

Reason#5 is the only valid reason for the low turnout. The Orleans would not budge on this condition. I tried to get several interested players into this tournament. They were rejected because of limited play or limited average bet at this casino.

I consider this to be one of the better run tournaments.

 

We can all make lists from one to one million. The fact is this game has no demand. Cut the list to 1.

Way to go Tharsht. He has clicked off a bunch of final tables. A cool guy and a top player of 2007.

 

Barney

We all seem to agree as evidenced by the low turn out there was limited demand. The question asked was why, your opinion?

A lack of tournament BJ players in the West as you've stated previously is not the answer when as one example; the LV Golden Nugget has drawn 300 plus entrants in each of their four 2007 $100 paid entry events including their
01/02/07 to 01/04/07 tournament so I'll exclude "To close to Xmas or holidays" as an option.

 

My saying we only have 30 BJT'ers out here in the West is crap too. I know this because Pechanga and Viejas fill the house with their games. Hell Pechanga doesnt even put it on their web site, but still they grab 500 - 700 players. Viejas up to 300. Altho, So Cal has an advantage because we have a wealth and culture pool that is easy picking. Vegas is actually a city off the beaten path. That might sound odd but a lot of Vegas travel occupancy are from So Cal and site seeing vacationers. So, I think it comes down to limited exposure of the game. I can tell you when I mention to my friends I play BJT they dont even know what it is, then they try to talk me into playing poker. Quality demand is driven by ease of access of a quality good or service. The game just isnt filling the requirement. For the casinos they keep trying because they make bank on BJ. If it were that easy to figure out the problem it would have been figured a long time ago and this might be a reason the casinos are all over the map with rules and formats, they are experimenting. Trying any way possible to fill the BJ tables. It comes down to forming a snowball, getting it rolling. Maybe we should hire Frosty the Snowman.

 

One thing that confuses matters when trying to figure the participation rates in tournaments. We dont know the actual invite vs open players stats. For example, Pechanga might have 500 players but how many paid the initial entry fee? It could be under 100. Maybe even around 50 and dare I say 30! Take the Golden Nugget- I have heard they invite many players. Just how many pay entry fee to play at GN for invite/open games? If we look at participation at events such as these we need to separate those willing to pay without a free boat. Consider the internet. I checked UB the other day and saw 4800 in a poker free roll. Im not sure what a 300$ game is drawing at UB but it surely isnt over 4000. But they do grab solid number willing to pay 300$. It comes down to offering a product people are willing to pay for.

BTW, the consumer spending stats came out today are are solid altho inflation has chewed at the spending potential. GDP is at 4.5%. Think back to a tourney in OK and the poor turnout at the Cherokee. That area of the USA is cranking because of energy industry is throwing money at employees like sand at the beach. Altho using the economy as an excuse is valid it isnt the main reason we cant attract players.

 

I believe all the above reason mentioned have something to do with the thread of low turnouts at several of the land based events.

Other reasons to concider for low attendance may also be:

1. All the new casino'sall over the world (out of country players now have other gambling options then Vegas).

2. Marketing and advertising of the event (FGK has mentioned this several times).

3. The guarantee of prize money regardless of turnout.

Bottomline is to host a successful event and draw in the players the casino's have to follow as many of the reasons mentioned as possible.

Rookie mentioned the success the Golden Nugget has been having, lets look at the reasons why.

1. They market and advertise well, to both locals and out of town players and they get a very good combination of comp-ed players and players paying the entry fees.

2. The fee's for those having to pay are lower and more affordable for all the players.

3. They offer a guaranteed prize pool.

Other casinos that are drawing in larger crowds for land based tournaments of around 200 or more are: Pechanga in CA, Horseshoe in Tunica, Imperial Palace in Biloxi, and the Las Vegas Hilton suited blackjack
tournaments.

All four mentioned casinos follow the above three mentioned reasons for hosting successful turnouts for their toutnaments.

 

Invitational

I dont think the issue was the money. By semi-invitational, they mean your are invited but have to pay. If no invite, then your $$ is no good, no matter who you talked to. I do not live in Vegas and have not had the opportunity to give Orleans much play, therefore, I could not have participated. I am sure there were many others in this category.

 

Every reason advanced by the members here for the Orleans low turnout has or can be effectively countered. So how about this: S*** Happens!

Whenever any casino sponsors regular BJTs, be it invitational, open, or a mix, the number of entrants always varies. Sometimes it's high and sometimes it's low - amazing isn't it!!! This happens to be one of the low turnout ones for the Orleans in spite of their past tournaments being successful.

The reason(s): probably a combination of unfortunate circumstances that we can't determine without interviewing everyone that got an invitation. Just as in live BJ, sometimes "it" works, and sometimes "it" doesn't. This time the BJT at the Orleans, well "it" just didn't work - so in keeping with the Christmas spirit - yes Virginia, S*** Happens.

 

turn out

Viejas has been drawing close to 300 entries for their $50K events - with $100 entry fee - with $100 rebuys - they probably aren't losing much on these now - maybe even ,aking money

even in Yuma we see wild swings in turn out - in summer - maybe 35-40 people for a $5K with $30 entry fee/$20 rebuy - in winter - can reach 140 people - difference - the snowbirds that descend on Yuma every winter -

so many factors can influence turn out - Orleans did not even mention this tourney on their web site - no marketing to public at all - don't know what the rules were for entering - but - if you don't know about it - you can't show up -

Golden Acorn has been getting better turn outs since they started sending out letters to players - letting them know when the turnaments are - they were running about 50 - 60 players - now are running 60 - 80 - just for a few stamps -

I don't think we can blame the players for casinos that put on undesirable tournaments, don't publicize or market their tourneys, and/or jerk their players around with shifts in dates, cancelations, etc. -

casinos are among the most poorly run businesses in the world - they don't succeed because they are properly managed - they succeed because the customers will put up with incredible hassle and abuse for the chance to gamble -

 

The Golden Acorn has increased the participation simply by sending invitations to come play the event. Of course GAs is a mini so we cant even compare its player levels to those over 100$.

Im wondering did Orleans send out any info regarding this tournament? I dont know what level of play or how often you need to play at Orleans but was the tourney on the players club mailer? The cheapest way to get word out- nowadays -is the email notification. Why not utilize this avenue for promos? Altho I have to admit I read carefully my casino snail mailings and tend to delete the email form casinos even tho I have requested the email.

 

Toolman, I started this thread about the continuing falling turnouts for ALL land based turnaments, I never ment it to be just about the Orleans event. It just happens that that was the last of many low turnout events.

I agree 100% that S--- happens, the entire point of this thread was how we could avoid S--- happening as far as trying to get the most players to the events.

 

?????

TX, The title of this thread is "Orleans Tournament", that seems pretty specific.