Palms UBT weekly 1-25-07

Well Thrasht told me he wanted to back me today at the Palms UBT weekly event today so we went over to play.

I tried to collect as much info for all the tournaments junkies who are interested in these events as possible.

To start with they start signing up around 1:00 pm and start at 2:00 pm.

They offer 6 tables, with up to 7 players per table at a $100 entry and $20 fee for the casinos, they also offer one re-buy at $50.

Today they had 49 entries and 19 re-buys, 6 full starting tables and 4 tables in the re-buy round 2 with 7 players and 2 with 6 players, (note 7 entries included in this round).

I was told that 84 seat total (entries and re-buys combined) are all they allow, at least at this time. So re-buys are on a first come first serve basis, if any at all.

Here were the main names I saw at the Palms, (those I knew anyway).

1. Thrasht
2. Ivan (Mad Russian)
3. Toolman
4. Anthony Crutis
5. Hollywood
6. Fred David
7. Ron Miller
8. Eastxpro
9. Jerry Gibson
10 . Sharon Gibson
11. Frank Britt
12. S. Yama
13. Juan - (WSOB qualifier)
14. Dreamer
15. Adrain Jade
16. Legend
17. Big Chuck Gorson
18. John Ressman
19. Saberjack
20. Sam Vaughan
21. Ace Donavan
22. Chris Bricker

My first table was fun, I got to seat down with the following line up:

Seat 1 - 7:

S. Yama
Juan - WSOB qualifier
TXtourplayer
Fred David
Anthony Curtis
Hollywood
Unknown player - ?

NOTE: Several players didn't play due to a WSOB meeting at 8:00 pm (the UBT finals scheduled to start at 8:00 pm).

Three advanced, I was lucky and advanced along with Anthony and S. Yama.

They had four rounds with 3 advancing in round 1, 2, then 2 from round 3 into the finals.

I ended up making the finals, however having to get over to the LV Hilton for the meeting (for the WSOB) I played overly agressive and was first out, (having half my bankroll out on hand #6 and hitting a 20, only to lose to a four card 21 help my early exit as well...LOL). Still I cashed $252 small, but a profit.

The finalist tonight were:

1. Jerry Gibson
2. Legend
3. Fred David
4. TXtourplayer
5. Robert Crew
6. Player didn't want his name mentioned.

The final payouts were:

1st = $2,700 seat for the April UBT main event + $1,102
2nd = $630
3rd = $473
4th = $378
5th = 315
6th = 252

Dealers are still getting use to the UBT format and rules, but did a good job over all. The sign-up crew, floor people, and dealers were all very friendly.

 

ubt

I Like The Format And Like That Not To Many Players I Feel I Have A Good Shot Cannot Wait To Be There In Feb Or March:d :d
SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD FUN TOURNY
THANKS FOR THE INFO SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD TIME WITH GOOD PLAYERS

 

Ran the numbers

Tex reported using 42 initial buy ins + 7 late buys and 12 re buys. The casino is running skinny already on second week my numbers say. They made 630$ at a 20% house take. Looks as though they need 45 players minimum to not lose money, that is if they have to pay the entire 2700$ seat money. Maybe toolman was doing as he preaches and playing the casino! LOL Does the Palms even have 5¢ poker machines :laugh:

 

wow

What pleasure do you get from trashing UBT at every turn Barney?? Its an old and tired bit already. You actually sound like this tourney failing would be good. How?? If it werent for life circumstances right now I would be there every thursday. Enough with the doom and gloom to UBT posts.

Maria

 

Maria, my point was it looks like the event needs a minimum of 45 players to survive. They should be able to keep that up even with a 20% house charge.

Do you have to take the 2700$ seat pass or can you take money? There has been discussion here about why a seat would even be offered when you could just buy it with the winnings.

 

I am still a bit puzzled as to why the Palms decided to hold these tournaments on a weekday as opposed to the weekend like the Boulder Station tournaments. It makes it difficult for locals like myself with 9 to 5 jobs to attend without taking vacation time.

 

Since it is their tourney and the first place is the $2,700 seat you would have to be an IDIOT NOT to want the seat. Paying 120.00 for a buy in, winning a MTT, getting a pass into a EBJ that will have a payout of over 400,000 and cash on top of it! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what a good value the Palms weekly qualifiers are!

Unless you want to continue playing the .01 slots and $1 BJ tables! Hey why not just buy the .25 lottery scratch off?

 

Red

If you had read the history of the offering of 2700 seat as prize it was negative chatter. When Tex mentioned he might offer a seat ( tbt) he was blasted because the winner could just buy the seat he was so stupid to even offer it. Also, any 20% house charge is more taboo than Joe making me wear yellow underwear. But hey its all good for UBT? I guess so! If I won an EBJ mini I would ask for the money. Period. Then when the time came I would buy a seat if I wanted to.

BTW, Im not all that con about a 20% house fee. Better than playing 30 hours at 25$ a hand as the tournament at Pachanga today required. 20%, if I may be so bold, sucks. But BJTers tend to not play while waiting for rounds to complete so maybe its a necessity to get casinos to take a chance. But lets be clear, until UB offered a mini at 20% the very thought of it would raise this :flame:

Also re the cheapo remarks. I dont think you know the regular BJT players very well. A strong majority are not like those you have played with in Aruba at 500-2700$ per game. They dont go to Vegas and shoot off several thousand dollars for WSOB. Most BJT players fork out 25 bucks a shot to play mini games and a buffet ticket. If you went to some "normal BJT" games you would find people on retirement funds. The pool of BJT is already shallow. Increasing the buy in amount wont increase the participation but it will keep a door open to the upper deck players we read on this board.

 

you have no idea how hard it is to not flame you right now. there are so many 4-letter-words i want to use to describe my feelings towards you and your constant harangues, but I just won't 1. out of respect for Ken & this site, and 2. because I think anyone with half a brain who reads your posts already sees right through you.

So what's your point now, that there's something inherently flawed with opportunities for the regular guy on the street to plop down a few dollars (or a hundred dollars) and win a shot at hundreds of thousands of dollars? i mean, you don't even make sense. in what freaking world are the incredible overlays online and constant chances both there & live to qualify for bigger seats to bigger events with much, much bigger prize pools a BAD thing?? you don't even make SENSE, dude.

if you had it your way, we'd all be playing $20 tourneys with a 100% overlay year-round. And you know what the prize pools would still be for those events? NOTHING! You make the argument that there's something wrong with even HAVING these higher limit games because 'normal' players don't have access to them. Well look at EVERY OTHER sport or game on the @#$@ planet -- 'normal' players don't have access to the NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL either -- but we still watch those games. We don't say 'that's not really good for baseball to put on a bunch of games that everyday people can't play' do we??!

The average joe DOES have access to things like the PGA, PBA, billiards leagues, etc etc -- if they have enough $$$ and talent to survive the grueling qualification process. And now the UBT offers not only the bigger tourneys with the bigger prizepools for the pros to play, but many, many affordable, practical, and in many cases even FREE chances to have a shot at it all, and your problem with it is......???!??!!

please, stop. you really are missing the freakin bus on this one, buddy.

-hd.

 

Dave

You didnt understand what I said at all. The high limit games are fine but who do they cater to? Not the majority of BJT players. The majority of BJT players seek low level games. Have you every tried playing at a mini tournament talking with the players that make the majority of this games population? I doubt it. BTW, If you every tried to pull that crap, as you did in last years WSOB, you would be gang banged by a group of AARPs. That behavior is not acceptable in most casino tournaments. It makes you look like a fool BTW.

BTW, if you want to see a near perfect, IMHO, tournament go to the Oklahoma Championship page.

 

Barney, Barney, Barney

First off, I agree with those that say you're out of control with your anti-UBT rants, Barney....but

I do agree with you that the Palms tourney the way it currently is will not be very successful.

The main problem is that there was absolutely no marketing whatsoever for this tourney. I arrived at the Palms and couln't even find it. There were no signs, no anything. Nothing in the pits annoucning to the players that it existed. Actually, the only way that I found it was because I saw John Ressman standing in a certain area. That was my only hint.

So, unless the average Joe in the casino happens to know that John Ressman standing near an empty table equals blackjack tournament, nobody will show up.

If the Palms decides to do more pushing of the tourney, it should do well, but right now nobody but us here and the people that look at PlayUBT.com knows it exists.

 

Palms weeklies

On topics like this, I believe there just needs to be more positive voices coming out to counteract the negativity of a few (er, is that one?).

I think the Palms UBT weeklies are great.

100% entry-fee return is great too, of course. But I think it's a bit overated as the only yard stick for how good a tourney is. Why do they not offer cash prize instead of a $2,700 entry? Well, it's business, first of all: It represents promotion for the Palms. They want to promote the fact that they are hosting a tour stop, of course--and more power to them. What other reason are they doing this? To make $600 a week? I don't really think Mr. Maloof needs that action to keep going.

And if casinos are going to present an open tourney (a rare animal nowadays), they need to get something out of it. That's why there are so many invitationals now.

Bottom line is that this is an affordable and open mini. And looking bigger picture, which HD rightfully points out would be wise for someone like Barney to do, it leads to a major, open tourney held in the USA, with substantial prize money. What's not to like? I hope to see a lot more of these.

Finally, for me, I'd rather play with talented and accomplished players (see the abbreviated list TX posted for a sample of just that). And if they are playing this, then that's where I want to be developing my game...

I do agree 100% with Ace as to criticism about lack of promotion. There was not one stick of that in the entire casino. They (and the UBT) should get on that immediately--promo cards at every blackjack table, signage, promo on the video screens--all of that. Maybe they're working out operational bugs before they get to promoting it, but they should get on it right away.

 

Freaking Moron

The only negative chatter I see around here is YOU and your constant anti-UBT/EBJ posts.

Barney, the cheapo remarks are not directed to anyone but YOU! You constantly miss the point that there are great EV games out there, take the WSOB for example! The $5 + .50 Bet21.com satellite and tonight’s $25,000 tournament offers GREAT EV. But YOU just don’t get it.

If you can’t afford the buy-in then so be it. I can’t afford the buy in for the WSOP but I don’t go crapping all over them and say that the WSOP is crap compared to my home game or to the poker over at the Hard Rock Seminole Casino down the road from me!

I read where you say how great Golden Palace was. Yeah no wonder there were multiple games where they gave away $25 every hour. To the defense of GP there was good EV on their tourney’s but their player pool was small.

If you had your way the only TBJT would be $5 buy in with a $100 first place. Now if you enjoy playing BJT and you live close to a place like that – cool. Heck here is Florida I have a choice between seeing major league baseball (Devil Rays) or I have multiple minor league teams (AA in Orlando), (A in Tampa and Dunedin). If I want to see A-Rod beat up the Rays I go to see the major league and plunk down $20 for a ticket. If I just want to see baseball I go to Tampa and plunk down $5 or wait for the free games that they have.

With TBJ it’s the same thing. Most of the tourneys you go to are small, small buy in and small prize pool. That’s cool. Now EBJ/UBT comes in and wants to go big time and you’ve got a problem with it? Why? If you’re so damn good just save your freaking money and come to a UBT event. What do you care if granny on her social security check can’t afford the buy in? Firstly anyone playing on their society security payments shouldn’t be wasting it on TBJ, regardless of the buy in. Secondly what business is it of yours?

The current system of BJ tournaments isn’t working. The current target audience – who the hell knows but things have gotta change to get more people involved. That’s why WSOB and UBT are good for TBJT.

It’s bad enough that Uncle Sam stuck his freaking nose where it don’t belong. What are you an undercover FBI dude? If you don’t see the value of UBT fine but cut the constant whining and bitching ok? The constant act is getting old. You already drove Joe away. How many other people do you want to piss off?

Sorry Ken, but I had to say it and get it off my chest. End of discussion for me!

 

ENOUGH is ENOUGH

SO FREAKING WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

JESUS H. CHRIST -- WHY do your have a CONSTANT PROBLEM with these higher limit tournaments?!?!?!?

Do they IN ANY WAY take away your ability to play the lower limit tourneys you like??? NO!!!!

WHY is there ANY #$@ PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with the fact that these higher limit tourneys exist for the many, many players who enjoy playing them?!!?

You sound like such a PETTY, JEALOUS, IGNORANT FOOL for your constant ridiculous attacks on these types of games.

I mean, REALLY --

WHAT DO YOU WANT??????


Should we abolish the UBT because it doesn't host a ton of live $20 tourneys?!?!?

Do you NOT LIKE being able to pay $5 for a satellite entry online with 30-40 players to win a seat into a $25,000 guarentee tournament?!?!?!

Do you NOT LIKE the option of playing a $100 live tournament that offers a seat to a $2700 event (plus plenty of cash back) that could make you in excess of $100,000?!?!?

WHY do you care so @#$%@#ing much about tearing EVERY SINGLE THING DOWN that is so clearly of GREAT BENEFIT to blackjack tournaments??!


i mean, WHAT THE FLYING FFFFFFFFF is your FFFFFFFing PROBLEM?!?


i swear to god, this is my LAST POST to you about this. But i will say one last thing:

YOU are horrible for this board, horrible for this community, and horrible for the progress of blackjack tournaments. YOU are a constant source of irrational and unfounded negativity here that consistently goes WELL BEYOND THE BOUNDS of any reasonable thought. YOU obviously have many deep-seated issues in your life that causes you to have a vendetta against anything that is so clearly very positive for the growth of our community.

I for one am SICK OF IT and am officially putting you on my IGNORE LIST because I believe you present NO VALUE to the discussions here on bjt.com. Moreover, i believe you actually HARM the community here and as a result WILL NOT TOLERATE your inane posting any longer.

i therefore URGE ALL OTHER MEMBERS to go to Barney Stone's profile page and place him on your IGNORE LIST. it is the ONLY WAY to stop what has proven to be nothing but MONTHS AND MONTHS of insane, hate-filled, jealous, harmful postings on our site.

"IGNORE BARNEY STONE"

pass it on...

-hd.

 

Well Barney

now you have done it - I have to agree with hollywood and fgk42 again

not that we should all ignore you - or that all your points are wrong - but - these satellite tournaments are worthwhile - as are the big tourneys -

As you know, I have played smaller tourneys - the most I have paid for a buy in is $200 - and $20 is more usual -

but I am in the $25,000 UB tourney tonight - because I won the entry in a satellite - that's why I entered the satellite - it took 14 tries - but I had fun and got the entry for a total of $77 - not $215 - that's already positive equity for me -

also have done some of the UB/Bet21 and UBT freerolls - made it through the qualifiers twice now - will be in the main event for Paris on 24 Feb - if I win :laugh: it will be a free trip to Paris and gauranteed money - that's very good equity -

and I am one of the ones that doesn't think much of the ebj format -

as far as the well known players getting invites or being the only ones in the bigger tourneys - lets be realistic - most big tbj tourneys are invite only for casino highrollers - if someone wants to gamble at that level - and accept an invite to a tourney - what's wrong with that? - its why the casinos do it - as far as certain players getting invites into tourneys where others have to win their way in - as long as there is a legitimate chance of a player winning into the tourney - and the people getting the invites aren't given advantages during the play - that would be the organizers right - I would hope that the invited players actually deserve an invite based on merit - from what I have seen on tv - that is definitely not always the case - but still - if the casinos sucker into inviting so-so players into their tourneys - they are the ones who will ultimately suffer -

what we need in tbj is both more big, open tourneys and lots more smaller ones - it is the smaller tourneys - accessible at local casinos - that will get players into tbj - just as they get players into poker - and it is the large televised tourneys - that will draw players to try their small local tourneys - small and large open tourneys feed off each other -

what we need is not just a UB tour, and a few UB satellites - we need ebj and tbj tourneys in many small local casinos - feeding people into middle size tourneys - so the middle size tourneys can feed players into the big money games -

Rick's tour, when it happens - will create some middle size tourneys so that small tourney players can move up - UB needs this type of tour too -

 

RK, the Palms mini satellite doesnt fit my contrarian opinion about the 5.50 bet21 games. The Palms pays out to 6 places and has re buys which to me says it has more value. I actually never said I dont like or agree with big investment games just that the majority of player dont look for them.

David, the vbulletin program has a poor ignore feature because at sign on the front page is started fresh each time, on my computer anyway. Hope you have some luck hiding from me!

 

Hollywood & fgk42:

You guys got it right. Hit everything right on the nail head - and everyone knows I like nails. Can only add one comment (see below).


Barny Stone:

Just one comment:
You are all wet as far as your statement about BJTers only looking for cheap weeklies when they come to LV. Do you really think that I, for example, would travel about 1,500 miles to play in a cheap weekly? Get real man. In all my trips to LV I've never come across anyone who was eager to play those fabulous weeklies.

Only one question:
Why are you here? I've seen no contributions during the course of your 700 some odd posts. Just joking and criticizing. So, I really want to know Why are you here?

 

AMEN, TOOLMAN!!!

Thank you for asking the question that's on most REAL BJTer's minds!

 

Toolman

Im here to keep track of events and industry trends! Also, read your postings which are about 50% of the time complaints and criticisms of others but a lot of interesting value too. As for the weekly events could you prove to me that a majority (I said a majority of BGTers play minis as minis are all open events and cater to all players) of BJT are major events? I never said we only look for small events I never said I dont like big events. If you can prove to me a majority of BJT play is major events please do! Ill tell you in Laughlin they have well over 500 playing minis per week and that is a small market. Chumash casino near me has over 100 players during their tourney season. Have a look at Washington State and so on. Im not 100% sure but think minis make up a strong majority of tourney play.

Now a question to you. What is your opinion on paying a 20% fee for a tournament? Its amazing how some peoples opinions are all over the map. I wonder how Joe feels about the 20% fee at the Palms? Is this a precedent maker? Is this a key to get casinos to offer more open events? As you accurately point out BJTers dont play at casinos which pisses the managers off and they dont want to support BJT.
http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?p=20937#post20937