Wednesday night I was in a local tournament. For this tournament they use a button to indicate betting and dealing position much like the dealer button in poker. The person to the left of the button bets first, gets card first and acts first. Final table. After last hand I'm tied for first with another player. The procedure is to do Sudden Death. If someone is ahead after a hand they are the winner. I was position 3, the other guy was position 4. The button was on position 5 for the last hand. For the first hand they moved the button to position 6, then position 7, then position 1. That meant I was first for all 3 hands. My feeling is position 6 was ok for the first hand but should've moved to me for the second hand so we would alternate first and second. It turns out it wouldn't have made a difference. The hands went as follows 1) All In - I had 13, he had 20, dealer had 5 and busted. Both doubled up. 2) All In - I had 14, he had 11 hitting for 21, dealer had 4 and busted. Both doubled up again. 3) All In - I had a pair of 8's for 16. He had 11 hitting for 21. Dealer had 6 and hit to 18. The only difference is hand 2 I'd have had the 21 and he would've had the 14 if the button rotated as I feel it should have. What do other tournaments do in this case?
They screwed up royally The button is never placed at an empty chair. This is true for poker and every BJT I've ever seen. Yes, they put the screws to you mrbill , but I would guess unintentionally. They were just plain stupid and totally uninformed.
Let me see if I've got this right. All of the other players had been effectively eliminated, even though they may have still been physically sitting there - right? Then the tournament staff probably screwed up bigtime. They were giving the button to blank spots!! It's horribly unfair to the first position player in the playoff (in this case, YOU) and you've got a right to feel wronged. If it were me, I'd have a private and good-natured conversation with the Tournament Manager and ask if the dealer screwed up. If so, perhaps there could be some compensation for you, maybe a free entry in the next event or whatever. If the dealer acted correctly, I don't think I'd play in a tournament which operated in such a fashion. That's such an unfair rule, if it exists.
Yes, it was just the 2 of us. We tied for first after the 20 rounds with $1600. Everyone else was still there since the rules state you will be considered withdrawn from the tournament if you leave the table before all chips are counted. It wasn't the dealer that made the choice to do it that way. The tournament director was there and told him where to put the button each time. Seemed odd at the time but I didn't think to complain. Next time I'm there I will have a talk with the tournament director about it. I also want to check the rules because the last time I saw the rules, the button position during a sudden death wasn't even specified. Also as it turned out it made no difference anyway. Same hands would've happened, just swapped on the second round of the sudden death.
No standard rules... This is just one reason, why I started the TBJPA. With out having a set of standard rules and format for blackjack tournaments (like TX Hold'em has) these type situation are going to keep happening. In the mean time any casino that is hosting a tournament has the right to make whatever rules they want. Since it is their tournament it can't be wrong, only not what we are use to or want. I do agree having to go first multiple times SUCKS in a playoff, but on the bright side at least the casino is offering tournaments. I remember some casinos that started on first base everytime for the entire round for both betting and getting cards, talk about unfair, but that was the casinos rules. At least we have the choice to play or not.
I agree with that. There is a dearth of tournaments that I can go without having to stay overnight. I'll keep going because I have a lot of fun doing it and this situation doesn't happen all that often. I am going to talk to the tournament director and find out if it's something in the rules that hasn't been exposed or if it was just the way she thought it should be done.
Standardize I have seen many strange rules in BJ tournaments but none quite as odd as the one mentioned here. I believe there are many tournament directors that have no clue as to the fair and equitable way to conduct a tournament. Many of them make rules as the tournament proceeds. I think Tex's BJTPA rules should be required reading for any tourney director. Only joking Tex, as I know this is impossible but maybe you could make a few bucks here by printing the rules in pamphlet form, much like Roberts Rules OF Order, and selling them to the casinos.
position would we be having this conversation if you would have draw seat 4? Just curious! As with almost all tournaments, their casino, their rules! If you don't like their rules, don't play their tournament!!
COmments I have played tournaments where the play started with seat one every round - except - they rotated a button - but - only used it for the last hand! - whole purpose of button was to track where last hand started! - had nothing to do with other hands - also - in the mini-tourney in Yuma - there is no button and no play order - just throw out your bet - except for the last hand - where play starts on seat one - yuk - lots of bad rules for tbj - for sure - but that says how casinos see bj tourneys - they are simply promotions - no different than slot tourneys as far as the casinos are concerned - or cash drawings - so fair and rational rules don't matter - the more luck determines the outcome - the less skill matters - the happier the casinos are with the tourneys - until casinos start offering raked tourneys and see tbj as a profit center - we will have to live with bad rules
I talked to the lady that runs the Wednesday night tournament. She understood my argument that it's not really fair to make me go first every hand. I believe I convinced her that the puck should always be on an active player(It's not in the rules at all). She has to talk it over with their tournament director and will get back to me next week.
Good on you for bringing your concern to the attention of the Higher Ups. I hope you get a positive outcome.
Main problem is Most casinos’ marketing departments are made up of staff that knows nothing about the games, no less the tournament side of the games. There job is to bring in players and they do not understand all the rules and or formats to host a first class tournament. I'm not knocking them, they just are not knowledgeable in how to host a tournament, but I'll still credit them with at least trying. What I have been told by most casinos when I have approached them about hosting TBJPA events is that higher management has told the tournament and marketing dept. that if they need to bring in someone to help them, then why do they need them? The problem is most tournaments don't have an exact number of players and rounds to be played that advances multiple players each session so they simplify the events by just advancing one from the tables. And then if they do work that part out the floor personal are not that familiar with what to watch out for in tournament play. I'm really thinking about making up a TBJPA manual on how to host blackjack tournaments. That might be the first step in gets a standard set of rules and format set-up for tournament blackjack. May not work, but worst they can say is no.
I would like to encourage you to do this. It will really help players have something to use as a guideline, should their local casino have a tournament set-up poorly.
