Proposal on the table, will you support it?

I summited a proposal this weekend to a casino about hosting my new Airline format. If accepted will offer an open event to up to 96 entries at assorted levels, (64 @ $250, 10 @ $400, and 17 @ $1,000). Re-buys at $125 and TWO entries will be allowed per player, but only 1 of the $1,000 level entries per player.

These WILL NOT BE TBJPA TOURNAMENTS, but The rules will be TBJPA or very similar.

I'd love to start with 8 qualifiers every seven weeks ending with a big championship event at the end, but the proposal I made to the casino was for only 3 tournaments and if they didn't like what they saw that would be the end of the Airline format and these events.

Now should the casino be willing to host these first three tournaments, I'm not asking you to come play, but know this if they are not supported by us then we can't blame them for not offering us anymore events and the complaining about how few, about formats and rules need to stop. It won't be the casino fault, it will be ours for non-support.

Again if the casino gives us this opportunity to play in an open event with good rules and format, guaranteed prize money, and entry levels for all to afford to play and positive "EV" at every entry level and it is not supported.Then no member here should ever complain about another tournament EVER!

"IF" we are giving this chance and we can show that we are willing ti support these tournaments maybe, just maybe other casinos will take notice and they will start opening their events as well. But until we prove to the casinos that we are going to do so, why should they offer us anything?

Remember just a few years back most casinos didn't have poker rooms, it wasn't until the WPT hit TV that they saw the interest poker had and they scrambled to open new and or bigger poker rooms.

Same thing for BJ tournaments, we show them the interest in there for these tournaments and there will be more offered, I promise.

However without the members support we might as well stick a fork in any hopes of having nice tournaments with good rules, because we'll be done.

Keep your fingers crossed that they will be willing to give us a chance with the Airline format, (which if we get won't start until at least July 2009). I will keep everyone up dated on the status of these events, wish me luck!

 

WOW!!!. Quite a drastic do or die statement. What you are saying is "accept the Airline Format proposal because there is nothing else possible". Let's get real. We haven't even seen the final decisions on how the tournament would work, payout schedules, location, or time - all we have seen are discussions. We don't even know if the tournament would be at a casino where we care to play. So until we have absolute concrete information, how can we make a decision?

Also, I think any "ultimatum" like this is not warranted. If it don't work that means the players don't like it - be it rules, payouts, timing, or casino location. The discussion on this subject has been among maybe 8 to 10 people with maybe 15 partaking in polls. I hardly think that is representative of the BJT community as a whole. The BJT community, on the whole, does not discuss. They vote by attending or not attending an event. So we don't know if it's good or bad until the event is actually scheduled and held.

Now don't get me wrong. Working for change is good and I appreciate anyone who works in that direction. But an "ultimatum" - not good.

 

At $250-buy in, for me it would have to be somewhere I can get to cheap/easy. Especially if I succeed and have to come back for a Finals Tourney. I'm down here in the southwest corner of the country....and a 1-day drive limits me to SFO/Reno/Vegas/PHX circle or anything inside (or 1/4 circle for those being literal).

Flights are just out of my budget this year. So the Short-Hops of 2 or 3 hours to fly in on the Day Of aren't feasible.

So, I have to agree with Toolman that your tone was a bit harsh and out of line to me.

 

No Ultimatum

I'm sorry if I was to dramatic or it came across as an ultimatum do or die situation. However I do believe that the members here (at least enough to make a decent showing) need to come play these events if we are giving the opportunity by the casino.

With two entries allowed per player that is only 48 players up to 96 at single entries (or any combination between), so that really isn't asking that many to come play.

The reason I guess I came across so strong in my first post was because "IF" we do get the casino to offer these tournaments they will be watched closely and need to succeed. I'm not saying that the Airline format is the answer, but it may be a step in the right direction for the future of tournament blackjack, at least in our current economy.

As Toolman pointed out, a location, times, and dates have not been announced nor will there be until the casino or a casino agrees to host them (on a trail basis anyway). So until then everything is a mood point and "IF" the casino allows them as I mentioned before the earliest they could start would be July so we would have plenty of time to post the when and where.
The entry fees and pay schedules have been post and discussed for the last few weeks. The only unsure thing about the pay schedule is HOW the semifinals payouts would be paid for all non-advancing players, but the percentage payouts have all been posted from 1st to 18th.

And I do understand that the location is a BIG issue for several players and I think that even at a $50,000 event that most of the players will be from a certain regional area that will be able to attend and that is who I am really speaking to about these events, although any and all players wishing to travel would be more then welcome.

Casino management watch other casinos and see whats going on and if they see something working and making money they will follow suit. This is why I think it is so important that we make an event that offers open play and good rules work so they will want to copy them for their tournaments.

Again if I came across to strong in my opening post I'm sorry, but we do need players support if we ever expect to have any of the changes we discuss on this site to ever happen.

 

I really don't want to get into rules and payouts. Enough discussion has already occurred on those subjects without much progress so my opinion will not mean diddley. So now it comes down to the casino.

I think a critical element of any tournament's success is the casino location and it's acceptance among the gaming public - not just the BJTers. A casino hosting a major BJT must have a customer base of tournament players built up over the years in order to have any hope of creating a large turn out with both locals and players from out of state. It also must be a place where out-of-towners want to be. Yes, those out-of-towners are coming in primarily for the tournament but there is life outside of the tournament - sad but true. Unless of course you want an atmosphere like the Winstar - fly in at late as possible, play the tournament, and fly out as early as possible to avoid staying that dreadful extra night. Well, not for me.

 

Why does it seem like the few members of this community who are trying to improve the frequency of "OPEN" tournaments have to be subject to public negative feedback from some fellow members. It sours the subject and direction of the plan.

This is where the private message system could come in handy.

Here is a good example Toolman could PM Rick and suggest to Rick that his words in his original post may be taken the wrong way by others.Not doing that has turned this thread into something other than what it was planned for.

In closing its not about how it was written, its about when and where the tournaments will be,case closed

Keep up the good work Rick......I will attend.

 

Toolman and I talked

I wasn't up set with Toolman, we've already talked and I fully understand his concern and after going back reading my original post I could see where players may think I was coming across to strong. That is why I replied to try and correct my intentions.

Toolman and I are friends and I respect his opinions as do I with most members here, that's why I post and ask for so much feedback. I understand more then most how hard it is to try and please everyone, (it cannot be done).

I also respect Monkeysystem and Lil Sis for coming to my defense, but no need too, believe me I'm very think skinned...lol. If I quit posting after I made a mistake I would have been gone from here a long time ago...lol. This board is for a chance to express member’s opinions and as long as no attacks are personal towards me or other members I have no issues with members having opposite opinions.

Now that I've said all of that, let’s get back to creative ideas to improve blackjack tournaments. The events I am trying to get started up I believe will be fair for several different levels of players which is a good thing, because we need players from every group to make these tournaments succeed.

Will these events be affordable to all, NO because there will be more travel involved for others and I do understand that. However players within the region I hope support these events and even some hardcore players that are willing to travel. My goals are simple try to make these events successful so other casinos can see their success and model there events the same way. If we can show other casinos that OPEN events don't hurt blackjack tournaments, but by allowing "ALL" players to entry will actually help the over all attendance of their events.

 

First - Yeah, Tx my friend, you did come on mighty strong in the original post, but you've done your "mea culpa" quite well. Forget about it and keep on track.

Second - For those who griped about it - Give the man a break, people. Geez. He's working his butt off trying to get something great started for all of us, and he might have gotten a little overzealous in his excitement with the tone of that first post. Back off a little, huh?

Third - I really haven't seen many complaints at all in recent threads regarding this Airline idea, but I did see a lot of suggestions! Perhaps some of these looked like complaints to certain folks.

Fourth - I'll support this thing by showing up for any that I possibly can. Tx and Monkey are right, we've got to support something like this even if it isn't exactly to our personal liking. Look at what is offered!

* OPEN events with no "Don't Ask - Won't Tell" play requirements to qualify for some "Good Ole Boys Only" bullcrap.

* FAIR rules that reward skill a bit better than some of the stuff that's becoming alarmingly commonplace lately.

* EXTRA chances to advance, a very important element for those who must travel many hundreds of miles.

If Tx can get these off the ground and we don't support them, we've got nobody to blame but ourselves!

 

Good Luck Rick

I'll make every effort to be there - no promise - especially if travel involved - but a chance to play under decent rules is very attractive -

 

one more comment

Can you also get some reg type tourneys with TBJPA rules set up just preceeding or following the airline tourneys? - Even raked ok - and for reasonable/low entry fees? This would encourage people to get in a little earlier or stay a little later - not important how many play in these - they are simply add-ons.

 

General Location?

TXtourplayer,

Recognizing that you should not identify the casino until the "deal is done", can you give us a general geographic location? Or perhaps the the airport we would fly into?

The Count

 

more tournaments? YES

I agree with sissy Rick. Just keep trying to get us some more open tournaments. Some folks must have it only their way or they wont play.




tgun

 

(was busy today, so couldn't chime in until now)

I'm sorry if I was "barky" with my reply -- ask the Santa Ysabel Pit Crew and they will tell you I'm their biggest tourney promoter. Poker or BJ. And I'm not on their payroll.

And given the economy in general, tournaments look like a Good Value even to ploppies: play longer for the same price, just get to play with the Big Chips. Hell, that's even me some nights.

I'm just going to hope that this first one is somewhere I can get to without breaking my personal bank in travel costs. (Sux to live in San Diego sometimes.) And while there may be others here who are used to the "high stakes tourneys", I'm not. I'm your $2k prizepooler who still twitches at anything over $50 to buy-in. And that's just due to personal budget woes this year.

And TX, I'll PM you as well.

 

Sounds like a lot of members

Sandy there are several members here that only play the smaller events. The entire concept for the Airline format is to offer diversified entry levels where all players can afford to play in the tournaments.

Economy Class - locals winning their way into the qualifiers for under $50 entry in their weekly events. This will account for max. 80 players and be paid for out of the $20,000 guarantee.

Coach Class - Open 1st round entries at $250. Open to 64 players.

Re-buys - 2nd chance for the Economy and Coach Class players at $125 who don't advance to round 2.

*NOTE -Re-buys may start in the 2nd session of round 1 in needed.

Business Class - Open 2nd round entries at $400. Open to only 10 players max.

First Class - Open 3rd round entries at $1,000. Open to 17 players max. limit 1 first class entry per qualifier.

As you can see this format allows players a chance to entry or win a seat from entries as low as under $50 up to $1,000 for each seat depending on which round you wish to start.

I agree with both Toolman and Sandy that the events cost goes up dramatically if travel is involved. I understand these events (if started) will not be affordable for all, but we have to start somewhere, hopefully it's close to enough players.

The importance to make this tournament succeed is it will give us the opportunity to build from a successful
event. Casino's want to gamble, they want to be shown that something works, so these work they may give it a try at a casino close to you.

My first goal is to get in at least the first casino with this format and rules. After that we can worry where the tournaments are held.

 

proposal

rick
count Marie & I in provided it is our region of the country. Current health problems keep us from flying or high altitudes.

 

Trust me I know about health issues.

Hello Ikedog and Marie, great to hear from you. If I can close the deal, I think it will be close enough for you to attend without much travel invovled.

 

Commendable

Tex, You are to be commended for your effort to provide tournaments that every person interested can play. Your past effort should also not go unnoticed.
I also am limited by health reasons to travel any significant distance from my home without incurring some unwanted health issues.

Hope this works out for all that can attend.


Thanks Mike

 

T-Gun if they want it their way they can always go to Burger King.

If they bring their Burger King Power Chip they could even send back their fries :laugh:

 

Chances getting better!

[FONT=&quot]Well I just got called from the casino about the Airline Format events. Seems they want a little more information about the tournaments, but at least they are interested enough to call me back, which with casinos is a big win to start with.

I was told that they wouldn't happen until this summer, if then, (which I already knew and posted).

They also were interested in hosting the multiple events over 5 - 6 days. Maybe nightly tournaments at $50 entry on Tues., $100 entry on Wed., $100 entry on Thurs., and $150 on Friday, with the Airline format event on Sat./Sun.

If we can get these tournaments going points will be awarded for each of the tournaments with the top point winners getting cash prizes for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place rankings for the week.

*NOTE: other then the weekend Airline Format all other events will be normal elimination format tournaments.

With multiple events this will help justify the travel expenses.

I will keep everyone posted to whats happening as they develop. I'm rising our chances to 70% to get them hosted, keep your fingers crossed.

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