This is my report card on the Seattle event... TOPIC GRADE REMARKS Casino (Iron Horse) D Dreay and dismal Local Participation F Virtually non-existant Hotel (Days Inn) D Third Class property Tournaments D Too few players Casino Restaurants B Good breakfast menu, good value
Did you get our badge? As long as you got your Boy Scout badge is all that matters. You know the new Gamblin' Badge that replaced the Fishin' Badge. Hey just goofin' around. Sorry the event did not pan out.
Just got back home... Yea, the Seattle events were disapointing. I knew we were in trouble when one of the locals told me how they only pay $25 buy-in for a $2,500 guaranteed mini, and then added for $100 buy-in we need to get at least a $50,000 guarantee...LOL Sad part about that statement was it was true, I'm not kidding. I just hope they advertise it if Washington ever offers an overlay event like that...LOL Thrasht and Hemi-power came by and and that was about it for regular tournament players. By the way Thrasht, Happy Birthday again and you got a killer HARLEY!!!!
Good for Andy... The only good thing about the small turnout at the Iron Horse Casino in Seattle (Auburn) was it being Andy's first live tournament. Other then that I felt horrible about the out of town players coming in and having so few of the locals playing.
Again: What were the payouts? If TEX or anyone else knows please let the rest of us know. Why is it being keep a secret?
Not even worth posting... Pokernut the prizes weren't even worth posting about. For all the events in Seattle the total was around $12,200.
Rick, I am sorry to hear about the poor turnout for the Seattle events. I spent this past weekend in Biloxi at the IP. For their event, which held a guarantee of 150,000 and a 499 buy in there were only 249 players! Their re-buy was only 150 and that 150 went back into the prize pool as promo chips. I don’t know the totals of the event at the Grand in Tunica but with a 100,000 guarantee I can see “why” people chose other venues this past weekend. It all comes down to the prize pool and how much is available. Unfortunately I’ve come to the conclusion that yes there is skill involved but there is much more luck than skill. All the skilled bets or tactics won’t compensate for dealers having 20, 21 or BJ 25 of 30 hands, or for the player getting stiffs every single time! Now as I’ve been playing more and more poker there is still lots of luck but since you have the option of betting AFTER seeing your cards there is more a feeling of control – is there still luck? Absolutely! However, there is, in my opinion, so much more luck involved with TBJ. Earlier this year we saw with UBT the dismal turnout of their event at The Palms – Why? No guaranteed prize pool. How about the Venetian Circuit Event – same thing. Then when there was a guarantee at the UBT Venetian Stop – boom attendance up! It all boils down to this: TBJ is a niche market. Will it EVER be mainstream? NO! Players have been conditioned to only respond to +EV and shun those events where there is an unknown factor. I hope I’m wrong. I hope that there is 400-500 players at the Tulsa Event in October. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.
FGK, was the Biloxi event an invite/walk-up? If so that probably has more to do with attendance than prize pool guarantee. Or better yet a big guarantee and invite brings big player attendance. I played in a game Monday with a 100K guarantee with invite/walk-up and it had over 500 players. And you want to talk luck factor? I saw gross examples of luck this game more than any other I have played. Time after time. Ken should add to his e-book you dont need to hit a soft 13 to a dealer 6 LOL. Thats the key to a win! LOL
Guarantee prizes are just part of it The guarantees are great, however most events offer a guarantee with the small print disclaimer "Based on X number of entries". The other and even bigger issue is getting the host casinos to advertise and more importantly comp in players. I can promise you that with any event over 200 players close to half of them are comp-ed in or can use players points for their entry. It dosen't matter if it is the TBJPA or UBT, without the host properties comp players none of our events will pull in large number of players. The Tropicana has promised 50 comp players for the November 13th - 16th TBJPA events. Now with those players along with the regular TBJPA members should draw in extra players as well (or I hope so anyway). Another added draw for the November TBJPA events, is that we backed them up to the LV Hiltons "Suited BJ Tournament". That event normally host over 600 players and we are hoping to draw from that group as well.
And why do you think that is? How many players in poker tournaments are comp-ed? I don’t know. I hope the Trop’s guarantee is better than the River Palms. Hosting is piggyback with the Hilton event is a smart move and it reduces a players travel costs and makes it more affordable. The crux of this issue, in my mind, is this: What “value” do BJ players place on BJT? It seems like you’re saying that unless most players get a “free ride” – interpret that as comp-ed entry, they (BJ players) won’t support an event. If we take premises as valid the next logical question is why? Is there no value to a BJT? Is it nothing more than a carnival game? I’m asking these questions to understand the crux of the issue because no matter how good your tournament, no matter what rules you use, regardless of a chip stack or not – if the players don’t support the event it will not continue to survive. These questions are not only geared to TBJPA events but to the UBT as well. Unfortunately I’m afraid no one really asked these tough questions first and foremost. Success breeds success and failure – well enough said.
Originally Posted by TXTourplayer The other and even bigger issue is getting the host casinos to advertise and more importantly comp in players. I can promise you that with any event over 200 players close to half of them are comp-ed in or can use players points for their entry. It dosen't matter if it is the TBJPA or UBT, without the host properties comp players none of our events will pull in large number of players. Posted by FGK42: And why do you think that is? How many players in poker tournaments are comp-ed? I don’t know. Very few if any are comped by the casino-- Poker is considered a step child and most casinos would rather not even have poker in their caisnio, it does not not make them the money other table games do.
Then why are there like a gazillion poker tournaments and no BJ tourneys held every week? Supply and Demand - that's why. How many players got comp-ed into the WSOP and the month long events at the Rio? NONE Sure some had sponsors but for every poker entry someone, wether a online website, sponser or individual, shelled out the $10K Let's face it people - Blackjack players are cheap (as compared to poker players) The BJ players have been spoiled in the past and as evidenced by the comments of the "regular" in Seattle they won't pony up that type of money unless there is a HUGE overlay. The question is this - why do poker players put up - sometimes with a huge vig, when BJ players bitch and moan when they're not comp-ed?
No demand The game of BJT has very very very low demand and the only way to get it is to give it away FREE as is evident by the huge participation in invite games. You have answered all your own questions, there is no demand hence no game supply. If there were solid desire to play people would pay. What amazes me is some BJT invites from poker and or slots wont even re-buy! I ask people lots of questions and many say they will only play the free game! DUH!
Poker gets the people because TV created the huge demand for it. TBJ doesn't have that demand because they don't have the TV exposure. Sure, you've got WSOB and UBT, but that's about it. People don't know much about TBJ so the demand isn't there. Hell, one year ago today I didn't even know anything about TBJ. I'd seen Celebrity BJ on the tube, but figured it was a boutique game created for that show. The PlayUBT site, discovered through Henry's BJ Insider, got me going. There must be thousands and thousands of folks out there who are just like I was one year ago. The problem lies in getting them interested. We all had high hopes the the UBT show & the Club would accomplish that, but it ain't lookin' good for them. Poker had the hole-card camera, followed quickly by the Moneymaker effect. TBJ needs similar magic bullets.
not enough players fgh you got a part of it right,"CHEAP" is the biggest factor. The next is "STUPIDITY". Ameristar gets over 100 players for their $30 tournaments which offers full equity. But can only get 25 players for their $100 full equitity tournament. Since the $100 event only gets 25 players, winner gets about $1000 not counting $100 re-entries. The $30 tournament pays $2012 for first place. I believe that most locals only care about what first pays for how much buy-in. They don't care about equity, or how many players that they have to play against. tgun
Report from the Brit It was not all doom and gloom in Seattle. I for one loved the experience of playing in the live tournament events at the Iron Horse casino. Rick Jensen and the American players made me feel very welcome. I achieved my playing goals that I would get some live table experience in and meet up with a few players from the net. For me, winning any money was incidental but I actually managed to reach the final table and cash in. When I walked into the casino on Thursday I must admit that the nerves kicked in and my “bottle” nearly went. Tgun and swede21 quickly picked up on it it and sat me down on my first satellite table. I will always be indebted to them. For anyone on here who wants to cross over from the net to live games then have a look at the TBJPA events which are very friendly. There were some big players in Seattle but they all offered advice and made novices like me very welcome. For seasoned player’s like Fredguy, I can understand his disappointment at the low turn out for the event and really don’t know what the politics are and why the Seattle crowd didn’t show up. Anyway. A big thanks to Txtourplayer (Slick Rick Jensen). And all the American players who helped me out. Andy
Thanks Jan and I thank you for your kind words. It's easy to be nice to someone as friendly as you. You may be a novice at live tournaments but your play did not show it. You deserved to make a final table by your bets and play. I'm glad you kept the cap on your "bottle". tgun & swede21
