I was wondering, if Stanford Wong was to show up at a casino the night before a blackjack tournament, how many players would be interested in going to listen to him give a seminar? How about playing at the same table with him? Stanford is a very nice guy and I talked to him today about these very questions. I think most players would love the chance to meet him and have him autograph their copy of Tournament Stratigeies, or possibly buy a copy from him personally. Let me know if this is something you the players would enjoy and I'll see what I can do about making it happen.
Not to be rude or unappreciative to the great Mr. Wong, but there are about a half dozen players right now who have a much better working knowledge of modern tournament play than he does. His book may still be a solid foundation, but it has more than been replaced in the 20-odd years since its writing... -hd.
So says the man with the phantom book....... Yeah its coming in November........ I mean February...........not March..........maybe May........... Been replaced with WHAT? Tell me another BJT book, on the market, that I can purchase? Yeah there was a rumor about a Ken Smith book too................
Bad Boy Tell me another book in the last twenty years that has replaced Casino Tournament Strategy because I would like to buy it. Okay Dave, I take your point and accept that there are more knowledgeable players out there. So Stanford Wong who has made a significant contribution to Blackjack Tournament Strategy should not be invited to give a seminar because he is no longer the best exponent of the game? Do me a favour. Your own book will be coming out later this year. Does that mean that when other players have read it, tweaked the strategy and put bells and whistles on it you should not be worthy of giving a talk because you have suddenly become dated? Andy PS Can you telephone Joep and ask him to update the radio shows on the Anthony Curtis site.
As with any "celebrity", times change. Just because one is not "at the top" anymore does not mean he doesn't deserve recognition for his contributions. We, as humans, do it all the time in all fields such as sports and leadership. Wong's writings form the foundation of BJ tournament play and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future. He is the pioneer in BJ tournament play just as Thorp was in the field of card counting. Whatever the field of endeavor, there are people who have gone before us to lead the way. It is normal evolution to improve upon those that went before us. I for one am just glad that Wong was there to start that evolution process. Without Wong's writings we would not be where we are today in our knowledge of BJ tournaments. For that he deserve our recognition as the pioneer in this field. Don't get the mistaken notion by what I said that I think that Wong's thoughts are obsolete. Far from it. By fully applying what is in his book, and knowing nothing else, only a fool would consider that player as "dead money" in any BJ tournament. And yes Dave, you are being rude and unappreciative. Don't forget that you have used Wong's principals to get to where you are today and you continue to use his principals, with some modifications, to this day. Hum, a picture is emerging where you owe your popularity to Wong. The reverse is of course not true.
Wong Interview RS: Do you ever have second thoughts about making all of this information available to the masses? Stanford: No, I just get a lot of satisfaction out of writing things up, explaining it, and distributing it to other people. That is what gives me satisfaction, that's what I do. Now, I know there are other people who have figured out a whole lot of things, and used that information themselves or with a team and made money that way. You have to decide what it is that you personally want out of life, and then structure things in such a way so that you get the satisfaction that you are looking for in life. For me, publishing is just tremendously satisfying. Benjamin Franklin had a quote that sums it up. He said, "If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are rotten, either write things worth reading or do things worth the writing." The full Stanford Wong interview by Rick Swogger can be found on this site. Andy
I think it is worth attending... I know Stanford and have had the pleasure of going to dinner with him several times while in Las Vegas. He is very interesting to listen to and I though that others might enjoy listening and picking his brian during a seminar. I just wanted to get some feedback on the idea. "IF" I make this happen, I would suggest those who have never met Stanford to come see him, I don't think you would be disapointed.
my my my... but then again, i knew those were the reactions I would get to a post like that! of course a stanford wong seminar would be a great learning experience, and of course i have learned -- and applied -- much from him over the years. in fact, my weather-beaten copy of his CTS still bears his autograph and dedication from the first WSoB: "Good Luck, and I hope you come in second! (to me, of course)" And thanks to his jinx, that's exactly what I did! lol... perhaps my point would have been better served like this: i just think it odd that when our community has been blessed with so many involved, committed, and available people like Ken Smith, Anthony Curtis, etc etc who are tournament geniuses in their own right, one would think first of setting up a seminar with a guy who hasn't seriously been in the tournament game for decades. Again, read this as a diss if you like, but my real intention here is to simply highlight the fact that I don't understand why you wouldn't try to set up a seminar with someone like Ken, Anthony, etc first or, at the very least, in the same initial post/thought. They would be much more available, knowledgeable as to accenting Wong's baseline with practical considerations, and the like. There is NOTHING WRONG with doing a seminar with Wong, but why wouldn't you think of what's right in front of your face first? And for the record, I'm not putting myself up for nomination in this category. Seminars aren't really my thing, at least not in this phase of my career. And as for my book....the long overdue 'Hollywood Blackjack' which has been in a never-ending stage of editing, tweaking, layout, etc etc -- the current release date is MAY DAY 2007 and as far as I know that's still solid. But as I've said before, its NOT a tournament strategy book...that's actually my 2nd book, due out ???? lol... Don't kill the messenger. -hd.
Hollywood is almost right Wong's CTS is pretty much all that is out there for new players - but is - let's face it - pretty basic - focused on late/final hand play - doesn't look at the potential for strategic play - and is rather limited in many ways - certainly there are a number of players who have gone past this level - I don't know how much tbj Wong has played lately - he was on the UB Legends of BJ show - and I thought he played well - as did all the players - but is he currently among the best and most knowledgeable? - I think a seminar with Wong would be interesting - as would a seminar with Thorpe on counting - but - outside of the nostalgia value - would the more experienced/expert players get that much out of it? - maybe Wong for the memories and Ken Smith and S. Yama for the math/understanding/skills/knowledge of the game -
There are many great players... Really there is so many great players who would be interesting to host a seminar's in blackjack. I mentioned Stanford first of all since he wrote the book (first anyway) about tournament blackjack stratigies. I know on the first blackjack cruise when had a small seminar with "Micky Rosa" of the famous "MIT team" that gave about an hour seminar and everybody really seemed to enjoy it. I know I pick up a little something from almost every player I meet and I think the same could be true from different players giving seminars. How nice would it be to listen and learn from Stanford Wong, S. Yama, Micky Rosa, MIT Mike, David Irwin, Ken Smith, Max Rubin, Hollywood Dave, Kevin Blackwood, Henry Tambruin, Anthony Curtis, Blair Rodman, Rick (Night train) Blaine, Joe Pain, and one of my all time favorites Bradley Peterson (he has the greatest stories). And the list goes on: James Grossjean, Marvin Ornstein, Richard Rockwell, Robert Blechman, Peter Nathan, Sam Vaughan, etc.... I know how much I have enjoyed talking to all these players and what all I have picked up from them over the years. I just thought that other players might enjoy getting to listen and learn from some of the above mentioned players also. Now these seminars may never happen, but if they do, do yourself a favor and stop by and I promise most all of you will pick up a thing or two from the above mentioned players and hopefully may help you in a tournament down the road.
People who do seminars, i.e., the mash potato circuit, are usually retired from that which they are lecturing on. The purpose is to meet, greet and reminisce about the “good ole time”. Stanford Wong is a LEGEND in the field of BJ and other tournament games. People like Ken Smith and Anthony Curtis are CURRENTLY working on their legacies but aren’t LEGENDS – YET. Lets face it, MIT Mike Aponte is giving a counting seminar in Vegas next week. Did he give seminars when he was part of the MIT Team? Heck no because he was using valuable information and certain things are better left untold. Would Ken Smith be willing to put on a seminar? I don’t know. But I, for one, would like to meet with Stanford Wong and hear about the “good ole days”. Unlike you, I’m not one of the lucky elites who knows everyone and has the “inside” and the “invites”. The BJ world is still a “good ole boys” network. Yeah I know the women will tell me that I’m wrong and politically incorrect – but in my opinion its true. The “insiders” are there because of who they know FIRST, then what you do SECOND. So diss uncle Stanford if you will but until you publish a TBJ MANUEL, and not some he said/she said/kick the door down/BJ trash talking paperback romance novel, just work on YOUR legacy. Yeah, I know you’ve got 2 UBT medallions but let’s see what happens in Season 3 when it is open to EVERYONE and not the handpicked few.
Bring it on...i'll be waiting! and ps... 'BJ trash talking paperback romance novel' - lol! now that is funny... partly cuz you're right, it does talk a lot of smack... but it also holds no prisoners breaking down exactly what you need to do to become the casino's worst nightmare at the cash tables. its the first blackjack book on the market to have an equal ratio of swear words to technical blackjack terms... -hd.
Are there really any good BJ games left? I doubt any casinos are quaking in their boots about AP overcoming most of the poor games offered today. What can overcome 6-5 payouts, 8 deck shoes, CSM, etc? Personally I think most average players could still greatly improve their own game as there are so very many truely poor players. They raise the oddds for the casino well above average by poor play...but adhereing to myth and bad advice seems to be the norm. and it astounds me at how little effort the average player puts forth to learn even BS. So yes...there is still room for yet another book on BJ...but how valuable that will be given the current restricted regular BJ is questionable. I would certainly be interested in a seminar by Mr Wong. He did write the book....the first and STILL most comprehensive study of the game. Lets face it....no one is Hollywooding into and out of games yet nor are they Eninigering anything in any BJ game. Certainly there are plenty of good players and each may have something to offer in a seminar. Personally Ive gotten more out of Ken Smiths written articles than from any book published today...he would probably put on a great seminar too....but until his book is published ...why would he want to? Im not sure about any other qualifications of some of the listed players...I have seen legends proclaimed that are more PR based rather than true game proven successes. I agree that this is still a rather small "ole Boys" club but I dont say that as a detraction...rather in the light of sitting at a renagade poker game with the likes of Slim and Texas Dolly....thats how poker started and this has to be how BJ gets started as well. The ole boys game will give way to true championship matches that include maybe some ole boys but also some rising stars that arent boys at all.... names like sweetteabird and Stormy come instantly to mind as players who will whip you with strong, smart play. These internet games are allowing endless amounts of practice and refining of the game. I see some really great play and players developing... many of whom I would stack against any former legend or good ole boy any day. The seminars are a great idea Rick... even an interview type situation with question and answer sessions would be a great benefit...you already have the interested audience. Another great idea would be to have Ken E and JoeP to do a remote live of their radio show at a big UBT or other event... Hopefully 2007 will continue the forward movement of our game.... The other night I heard a poker player mention how much fun the EBJ game was...Im hearing that more often and I think I know why...many players simply dont have the time required to play a session of poker (hours online and days when live action). They enjoy defined hand limit and knowing that come hell or high water this game will be won by someone by hand 30. Every single close well played game is enjoyed by eveyone....as opposed to the all in luck out lotteries the free rolls tend to be. Even these games are improving though as players skills evolve into a more skill based rather than luck based game. 2007 looks to be even better than 2006 for our game....Yea!!!!!
Poker vs. BJ Rando, I agree with what you say regarding the time to play poker tourney vs. BJK tourney. I play both games. In holdum poker you may only be involved in one out of ten hands. It can become pretty boring. Where in BJ, you play every hand. One can play several BJ tourneys a day, but very few poker tourneys.
