TBJPA - Blackjack Bonus

As many members know I am not real big on Wild Cards in tournament play, however they are need for two reasons:

1. To fill up the round and make the table equal.

2. To keep players in the casino's instead of leaving after getting beat out.

Well I think I have come up with a win/win situation for the Wild Cards and I'll be trying it out May 11th - 13th in Laughlin, NV at the River Palms casino. And I'd like your feedback on how they worked.

Losing players from the first round and re-buy rounds will be given Wild cards (for their entry and each re-buy), but only good for a drawing into the next round. After that drawing all those wild cards will be thrown away.

Normally I would only allow losing players from the prior round to be able to get drawn for Wild Cards into the next round, but this is where I came up with something a little different.

All tournament players who play regular blackjack tables will now have a chance to earn additional Wild Cards. Thats right, for every 8 blackjacks on a regular blackjack table you win an additional Wild Card.

Now I understand some my not like the idea of players getting back in the tournament, but isn't it better then just leaving "ALL" the players names in the raffle bid everytime?

Plus this may get more side action for the casinos, which is why they host these tournaments.

Note: All the wild cards will be thrown out after each drawing. So it isn't like anyone player is going to have more then a few Wild Cards at the most.

All Wild Cards will be given to the players so they will be responsible for putting them in the raffle bid themself. This will assure every player that their name is in the raffle bid and that when a name is called that player will be present (hopefully).

Besides the BJ Wild Card Bonus, I have a few other give-a-ways planned for the players on the regular tables.

I don't just want TBJPA members to enjoy the tournaments, but your entire trip to the River Palms. This is what the TBJPA is all about.

Hope to see most of you there.

 

I thought the purpose of you charging entry fees and membership fees was so a player did not have to give action to the casino, but unless you do give action you will have a disadvantage from players that give action. So why the fees?

 

Interesting point Pokernut


Joep

 

Wild Card BJ's ????

I thought the rules were determined, concrete, posted here and on the TBJPA web site.

Let me suggest some additional rule changes that can be distributed to players during registation after they arrive;

1) The 8 blackjacks must be won at a green chip table.
2) 8 winning yo's at a crap table equal one wild card.
3) 3 straight flushs at Pai Gow equal one wild card.
4) 4 of a kind at video poker equal one wild card.
5) $100 in extra tournament chips for $25 (funds go to the casino).
6) An invisable Ace may be purchased for $50. This can only be used
when your first dealt card is 10 value. (funds go to the casino).

If you have give-a-ways as you state planned for the players on the regular tables thats fine but the above is NOT a give-a-way, it's blackmail. I thought this association was for the players and the $30 fee to the casino was to offset the casino's expense.

I could expand on this subject further but have to catch a plane for an invitational BJ tournament in LV that required hours of play to receive the invite, this sounds somewhat similar, just a different twist.

 

Question

Besides the Wild card extra entries that need to "Go Away" fast,here is a question that was spoken about over dinner the other night with some members of BJT.com.The extra money that is being collected for the TBJPA end of year tournament. Where is that money being held and who is the custodian of said monies.Remember this money will be around for 13 months.Is it collecting interest,is it guaranteed by a bond and will any interest earned be put back into the players pockets?


Joep

 

Maybe it'll be held with the bet21 bonus money that people are owed. You know, the bonuses Joe refuses to answer questions about.

I'm not taking sides in this matter, but Joe has proven once again that he's a fraud and a coward.

 

From TBJPA web site: Each monthly tournament will have a $370 fee for the main event. The breakdown will be $300.00 per player entry fee, $30 casino fee and $40 TBJPA members fee. Fifty dollars will be taken out of each entry and added to the end of the year Championship finals prize pool.
1. Why are you holding $50 out of the entry fees (Prize Fund) to add to the prize fund of a tourney that has not even been scheduled ? There is no guarantee that there will even be a championship tourney so where would the held money go? 2. Why did you start a tournament tour that was not completely scheduled? It seems strange to launch a new tour with out a set schedule . When Berman started the WPT all the tourneys were scheduled for that season but when Moneymaker started the River Poker Tour it only had 3 events scheduled for the season and 9 events were tenitive, they never happened as the tour died after the first 3 events.

 

Well Rick....

Its great to see someone thinking about a better way....I understand you have both sides to sell here and this would help when speaking to casinos...and frankly it would help me becasue I have this little problem wherein I cant be near a casino and not be playing..lol

So I sould benefit by this wildcard assignment system...

That said it is perhaps a bit too gimickey...

I understand you want something more on the plate for the casinos especially at first and its not a terrible idea but the fact remains ....tournament players can be a tight group...;-)

Heres another idea but probably not good as well....Comp card points of sponsoring casino equals one entry for each point...that way every game is covered...

Or maybe a speacial extra side game that is free roll except it takes the house comp points to earn the chips to play...?Signups available in the lobby..

Its good thinking but this idea needs axed or reworked...

Good luck

 

NO.

If you really want the players to enjoy the tournament there are other ways...look what Davie has to do for some side action! Money talks! :joker:

 

Pokie Club Support Group

Hey Ghermanski,

It came as no surprise that you would be the next member banned on here after me (you could not have got a bookmaker in the world to lay odds against that fact).

Well I did clean the cell up after Barney and fgk had been the last residents in there, so I hope it is to up to your liking (please leave my Union Jack flag on the wall).

So on to a serious note.

You messed up, just like I did and have suffered the consequences of a post too far.

I learned from my misdemeanour and have apologised to the site members.

Hopefully, you will do the same when you get back on.

Andy

(Twelve steps BJT banned members recovery programme)

 

I'm thinking NO...LOL

WOW!!!!!!

I had to take care of some business today and just got back to find a little feedback on my bonus wild card idea. I take it that the players don’t want it so it is out.

The wild cards were and are going to be on a need basis, to fill tables to equal number of players in each round or session.

Since the above idea didn’t go over very well, do you purpose wild cards for everyone as you bust out of the tournament and good as long as we need wild cards or wild cards after each round, so only those who played in the previous round will be aloud for wild cards?

**************************************************************************************************

Below was my reply from earlier that I forgot to send. It just explained what I was thinking about when I proposed the wild card bonus.

Entry fees:
Very simple, entry fees are paid in every tournament except invitational VIP events (I've even seen a few of those charge the players an entry fee). This is common for most tournaments regardless of the game played. Being tournament players yourselves I find this an interesting question.

Casino Fees:
These are charged to cover their expenses. The TBJPA has worked out with the casinos a 10% fee similar to poker. Except the TBJPA limits the amount of money up to $30 per player for any casino fee per event. This is to try and assure the casino covers their expenses and not to profit off of the players fees.

Example: Lets use the TBJPA in Laughlin, if we have 100 players with a $300 entry fee, the casino fee will be $30 X 100 players = $3,000 for the casino. This is fair to cover their expenses, plus they are giving the tournament players a $20 per night room rate and the events are open to all players.

Now lets look at the UBT event at the Palms with the same 100 players. Granted the casino doesn't charge 10% of the entry but, with the $200 casino fee X 100 players = $20,000 for casino fees. Now I find this VERY interesting.

Wild Cards:
Players that do get an extra Wild Card will have an advantage in the drawing (if Wild Cards are needed) of having an extra ticket (maybe more) in for one drawing, but in the over all picture of trying to assure the continued success of hosting "OPEN" tournaments.

I don't see this as an issue, especially if those players who earn any extra Wild Cards put in the time on the regular tables. This will make up for those who don't support the events with any side play. Why most of the tournament players conceder this is the reason the open events are almost a thing of the past.

Another plus is these bonuses will actually be paid…LOL

 

Tex you forgot to answer this question: From TBJPA web site: Each monthly tournament will have a $370 fee for the main event. The breakdown will be $300.00 per player entry fee, $30 casino fee and $40 TBJPA members fee. Fifty dollars will be taken out of each entry and added to the end of the year Championship finals prize pool.
1. Why are you holding $50 out of the entry fees (Prize Fund) to add to the prize fund of a tourney that has not even been scheduled ? There is no guarantee that there will even be a championship tourney so where would the held money go? 2. Why did you start a tournament tour that was not completely scheduled? It seems strange to launch a new tour with out a set schedule . When Berman started the WPT all the tourneys were scheduled for that season but when Moneymaker started the River Poker Tour it only had 3 events scheduled for the season and 9 events were tenitive, they never happened as the tour died after the first 3 events.

 

Here they are

I hadn't forgot, I was working on them.

The $50 taken from each $300 “TBT” entry and the $25 taken from each $150 “TBT” re-buy will be put into a bank account for holding until the “TBT” championship event. I have talked to two members who have agreed to oversee the collected funds along with me and an accountant. Before naming them I have to get their approval. The funds raised will be posted monthly on the web site for all members to see. As far as guaranteed, only by the federal government for up to $100,000 like most banks do. As far as interest earned the accountant will handle that matter.
I have no problem answering any of these questions in light of how Bet21.com has screwed everyone over and over again on the bonuses. I just wish Joep would ask Bet21.com questions like this.

The TBT is a work in progress, the schedule mainly. Several casinos like the idea, but want to see it in action first. I full expect to pick up several more casinos after the Laughlin events. I wish I could put out a full schedule right now or at least some tentative locations, but I saw how bad that went over for UBT, I just decided to wait until I have confirmation on the locations.
Should the TBT fail, we will simply host one last TBT tournament and add all the funds collected to the over all prize pool.
It’s not like we will do a Bet21.com and not pay what is owed.

 

concerning

The 16% fee on the TBJPA event concerns me, $300-$50 to prize pool and $150-$25 from rebuys. If the championship game, the funding is headed to, happens during Nov-Jan there is about a 100% chance I cant go because of client commitments during cold months. Also, if the event took place on a cruise I likely wouldnt play in it. During Oct-Nov I do special tree sprays up to 18hrs a day -it would be hard to get away. Etc. So, if I pay into it there is a very good chance Im investing dead money. As far as Im concerned the 40$ fee for the weekend is fine even if I skip the TBJPA game and the casino fee is a must at 10% per initial buy in. Because the championship game is an unknown date I'm hesitant to invest in it.

Also, what if the TBJPA got up to 6 tournaments and I play in 3 while others play in 6? How do you account for the different investments by players?

 

It's worked out Barney...

Each player who plays in a $300 TBT entry during the year will get a $50 discount off for each yearly event they play in off the championship entry fee.

The TBT Championship event will be held May 2008, location to be TBA.

 

Ok

That is an accumulation investment scenario and is acceptable, altho I would rather the money just go to the prize pool. I sure wish you could say for sure where the final event will be, I understand the circumstance tho. Maybe if this goes well River Palms will commit to a series of events, who knows maybe one per quarter with final at RP May 2008. I would be really bummed to find the final event I paid into was held on a cruise.

 

Tex I hope you have better luck than Moneymaker did with his poker tour, by the way he said his tour was for the working man since his tourneys had lower buy-ins and entry fees than either the WPT or WSOP circuits. He just did not invest enough money in the idea to make it work. I just could not pay your VIG $30 to the casino, $40 to you and then $50 held out of the $300 entry fee, which if a person can not make the championship tourney it becomes a donation to your tour for a total cost of $120 in fees to play in a $250 prize fund tourney with no prize guarantees. I think most people including me would rather see the $50 included in the event they are playing in than added to a future event. Why don't you poll the players and see what the majority want.

 

Rick,

Whether you intend to or not posts like the above are part of the problem between you and UBT.

The 200 fee for The Palms is only 8%.
The TBJPA is charging a $30 then $50 then $40 fees. Just the $30 & $50 means the TBJPA has a 26% rake. I don't care about the end of year tournament for the same reasons as Barney. It sounds good on paper but if I can't play in the end of year Championship do I get my $50 back? I don't think so.

The 8% UBT charges lets look at it shall we?

100 players x $200 = $20,000. If the casino charges $30/player (like yours does in Laughlin (I bet the Palm is more like $50 but lets use $30) that means that UBT makes 20,000-3,000 or 17,000 right? WRONG.

The winner of The Palms gets an entry to the Championship Tour valued at $10,000 with a $1,000,000 prize pool. AND UBT has it's end of year already scheduled.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges and you're not doing it right. You shouldn't compare TBJPA to UBT unless you want to be corrected about your mistakes.

The $40 fee to the TBJPA covers your expenses as tournament director - you have a right to cover your expenses and lets face it make some $.

As far as the little "tricks" like the BJ cards to get wild card entries - come on now. Are you going to make this a carnival game too? Drop those ideas and quick.

As far as the Championship end of year tourney - my response - drop it until you get the tour going. The $50 for buy-in and $25 from re-buys - put it into the prize pool at that event.

If you get 100 people and 50 rebuys that would be $6,250 that should go to the players at the inaugeral event. Keeping that $6,250 in a back will only lead to problems and with the problems you encountered in the past do you really want to leave any doubts? Start that in 2008 - just my opinion but start a poll. If you do that then the overhead for your tourney would only be $70 on a $300 buy-in for 23% rake - still high but better than $120.

Just my .25