Tournament buy-in amount?

Just asking out of curiosity, as I have no experience in real tournaments as of yet...

The only casino around the area I'll be living in for the next couple of years (Guam) has only two BJ Tournaments each year. The buy in is $1000 which covers 3-night stay at the hotel (~$600 value,) 3x meals a day, and some invite-only cocktail party. Now the payouts are as follows:

1st- $70,000
2nd- $24,000
3rd- $10,000
4th-7th- $1,000
They apparently get 50-100 players each tournament.

Is this a good deal? I mean, for normal BJ tournaments? The buy in/pay off seems pretty square to me, especially if they get less than 100 participants, but I wasn't sure how the numbers usually balance out. Thanks for any info.

 

equity

with 50 players @ $1,000 each - they are bringing in $50,000; and with 100 players, $100,000 - your paytable shows more than $100,000 pay out - so that is positive equity - big positive equity if only 50-60 players - and they throw in the rooms and meals on top -

but what about rebuys? - are they $1,000 too? - and what happens to the rebuy money? - goes into the prize pool? - or the casino keeps -

rebuys and how they handle them can turn positive equity into negative - a good deal into a bad one -

way I would suggest looking at buy-ins - think buy-in plus two rebuys - and figure you will lose it all - if that bothers you at that money level - avoid the tourney - even the best players come out of most tourneys without winnings -

 

Actually, I don't believe they even allow you to buy back in at the tournament. Is that a big negative?

 

no rebuy

for me that's a big negative - given the odds of getting through to the final table in any tourney - example - monthly here in Yuma - most months - qualifier table, seven players, win to advance; semifinal table, seven players, win to advance - raw odds of getting to final table: 1 out of 49 - given a very skilled player might enjoy - say - a 60% edge (skilled as in - say - Ken Smith) - that would give the skilled player a 1 out of 19 shot at a final table - with no rebuys -

in other words - figure out of every 19 tourneys - you will be one or two tables and out - usually one and out - no money - 1 out of 19 - you will get to the final table (if you're as good as Ken Smith) -

$1,000 is a lot of money for 30 minutes of bj -

rebuys give you more playing time - therefore more fun - and usually are cheaper than the buyin - and give you a much better shot at getting to the final table and the money -

 

When I look into entering a tournament, equity is only one of the factors. I don't play anywhere near enough tournaments to make the "positive equity" factor pay off. Very few on this forum do play enough to make the numbers come out as they will in the long term . So, as long as the equity is decent, and that could mean negative equity, I don't necessarily write off the tournament.

Most here play tournaments for enjoyment, a past time if you will. So I think one needs to ask themselves a few questions before entering any tournament:
1) Is the equity "decent"?
2) Do I want to play in this tournament?
3) Do I mind the travel?
4) Do I want to be in that casino for however long the tournament takes?
5) Can I look at this as a mini vacation or is it more like a "have to do"?
6 - ???) Anything else one can think of.

Now, if you answer these questions honestly you can arrive at an answer of whether or not to enter a tournament.

As for the tournament in question for this thread: Positive equity (especially considering the rooms and meals), substantial prize money, few tournaments in the area. This to me is almost a no brainer - go for it as long as you can afford to lose the entry fee with no regrets. Have fun, life is short. And above all GOOD LUCK!!!

I get a strong feeling you are going to enter this tournament. So let us know how it turns out for you.

 

Thanks much, Toolman. I probably won't enter the next one (March) as I haven't had any practice time whatsoever, but as I said it's a twice-yearly tourney so I will probably end up giving it a shot this year. Thanks very much for the advice.

 

Mike, What casino is this anyway.

Also if you have the details have you/could you post in on the calendar?

Thirdly, what time of year is it offered? Have you seen the play of the players?

 

Good points RK

Also don't forget about wild cards - are they available or not?

Here's a separate question

If a tourney has "cheap" rebuys, lets say the buy in is 500 and rebuy is 50-100 (i.e. much less than 50%). Would you ever consider just going all in on hand 1 with the understanding that should you lose it you're just going to rebuy and reduce your overall costs?

I ask because I remember when Global had their Wed tourney's I saw some people doing just that, especially in the "free rebuy" tourneys!

 

big equity

Mike,

If only 50 or 60 players enter this tournament. I'd play with or without any practice. Anywhere in the top seven you at least get your money back. Plus the free room and board.

Go for it, if as toolman said, "if you can afford to lose the $1,000.


Wish I was there. I'm driving 6 hours next week for 110% equity.

tgun

 

Guam

Mike--Why don't you give us the details about your lone tournament in Guam? Like tgun, I am traveling to Tulsa next week, but coming your way in March isn't out of the question (high here today 12). I also agree with him, pay the entry and take your chances. Sounds like a decent shot.

 

fgk42

I really don't understand thje attitude that if rebuys are available - that somehow justifies less than optimum play on the buyin - based on 'I may get lucky"

seems to me the whole purpose of this site is to help people learn to play the probabilities and gain an advantage - and so do better in the long run -

I always do rebuys - and I always play as well as possible in every round - way I figure it - each rebuy is like entering a new tourney - but with better equity - but I can't see the percentage in throwing away a buyin on a poor probability chance -

 

Whoa there doggy!

That's NOT what I was saying!

I'm simply ASKING!

Not having played many LIVE tourneys, with well over 1,000 (& counting) online tourneys I've seen people just go all-in on their first hand. they have a 44% chance of getting a big lead.

For example in a live tourney with rebuys. Only one (1) had the rebuy available. Buy-in was 250, rebuy 100. Since the price of the rebuy was much lower I saw some people just "chuck it out". when they busted on the first hand they simply did a re-buy.

I was confused and when I talked to him he said it reduced his average cost from 250 to 175. I thought then (and still do) "That sounds like voodoo economics! )

When in a LIVE BJT I want to get my money's worth and I can assure you this - you won't see FGK42 going all in on hand 1!

(now hand 2 is a different story!) :joker:

 

Fg

Its me the "freaking moron"

Your question actually is a good one because it represents a rebuy strategy some people use. If you know there will be 2 or more rebuys it is a good risk to play aggressive. Maybe you dont have to go all in but maybe the 25% or 33% play scenario. The Blackjack News Letter had an article on this I read from the archives and I have looked for it but had no luck. RK and I had played a lot at Golden Acorn that offered up to 4 rebuys which was good because only 1 of 6 advanced. Many players there were aggressive. 3/5 top money winners were all in or 25% and that was over several months of play tracked on a score sheet as they could shoot time and time again. If you want a professional opinion checkout the newsletter archives and find the article. Let me know if you can find that needle in the haystack!

FM

 

Rebuys

It'd be interesting to see how rebuys would affect play over at bet21 or golden palace. They used to have them over at global but I never used a more aggressive style to take advantage of that fact. Interesting....

Cheers

Reachy

 

Rebuys in Stl...

are the same as the initial buy-in, $30 weekly and $100 monthly. Rebuys are only used to fill the tournament. Some players ask how many rebuys are left and if behind at their table, and rebuys still available, they go all in on the next hand. This usually around hand 10 out of 25.

I usually don't change my style of play. The less skilled players go all in on the 1st or 2nd hand.

If wildcards are offered, each rebuy gets another chance at a wildcard.

My general feeling is that if the tourney is worth playing, then it's worth the rebuy.

tgun

 

fgk42

my response wasn't directed at you personally -

'lowering the average cost' is definitely 'voodoo economics' - you are right -

my thinking is to play your best game - and if don't advance - then do the rebuys if available - that will give you the best advance persentage over the long run - but i don't actually look at advance percentages by tourneys - but by 'tries' - a 'try' being every time I sit at a qualifying table - whether buyin or rebuy - in example - I am about 1 out of 4 tourneys to get to the final table - if the format is qualifier:single advance of 7 players; semi:single advance of 7 players - but because I do rebuys - that doesn't mean I get through 1 of 4 times - I actually get through 1 of every 16 times I sit down at a qualifier - in this format - so instewad of getting through to the final table at the monthly in Yuma once every 16 months - I get through about 4 times a year - with the rebuys - and since the rebuys are cheaper - that's good value

but I see no advantage - over the long run - in reducing your percentage by making bad bets - variance may benefit the wild bettor over the short run - but will get him in the long run