When playing in a BJ tournament we typically pay an entry fee. For the majority of tournaments the only payouts are for those at the final table - some pay a portion to the semi-finalists but they are few and far between. The question is this: How much of your winnings should you tip to the dealers if you make a final table? 1%, 2%, 5% 10% - or nothing? Should you tip the dealers in the first round if you advance? Should you tip the dealers in ANY round? OR is it the responsibility of the host casino to pay their employees for doing their job? Isn't part of the entry fee supposed to be used to cover the casino's expenses? Do you prefer that 2% of the prize pool is automatically deducted to cover the dealers? What do other members think about this?
I'll continue to stay out of the discussions about tournament formats, since I've been stiffly informed from a few sources that my live BJT experience is far too inadequate to have an opinion. However, on tipping the dealers and speaking as a relative newbie, this issue seems to be a dirty little secret that is hidden to the point of keeping everyone guessing. It was the one thing that really pissed me off about my UBT TV final table experience. It was also my very first live BJT table and my intense 2 months of studying the game hadn't turned up a thing about tipping. Had no idea until about a week after returning home from the taping, when I got a phone call from someone at UBT asking how much I wanted to have deducted from my prize check for dealer tip. I was so shocked that I couldn't even formulate an answer, told them I'd call back in a couple of days with an answer (and thank you again to the individuals on this forum who answered my panic-laced PM's and emails about it). Won't reveal what I finally did other than to say that I did not stiff the dealer. If only because of the newbies that we hope to entice into our little world, I strongly feel that tips need to be addressed right up front and out in the open. "X" percent right off the top. If an individual player wants to add to it, that's their choice, but make that percentage enough so that the players don't feel obligated to make a decision based solely on guesswork. If the tip pool is left completely up to player discretion, somebody is going to end up unhappy. Either the dealers will because they'll feel unrewarded for their considerable efforts, or the successful players will because they'll feel like they have to carry the tip load for everyone. A tip is for service rendered. Period. Since everyone enjoyed the service, let everyone participate in the tip. It actually works out that the most successful players will carry most of the load, anyway, since they'll get the slightly reduced prize money, but at least everyone (players, dealers, tournament management) will know ahead of time how things will shake out. A further side benefit for the players is that they will be able to take home what they get 1099'ed for without having to keep track of tip expenses for tax purposes.
LeftNut you bring some valid points to the table - yet you also include some "assumptions" that while many players have (I believe due to tradition) aren't necessarily valid assumptions. For example in YOUR specific example shall we? 1. You paid no entry fee(s) 2. You were at a final table 3. You cashed out some money I'm assuming these are valid assumptions? You said you didn't "stiff the dealer". However in your case the "dealer", the young lady on TV, was a paid employee of the company, in this case UBT. If she was a member of SAG then there are strict guidelines on her pay scale already in place. Furthermore dealing to a final table, with all the starts and stops, earpiece to tell her when to proceed, stop, etc., (you were there and know what I mean) isn't that difficult. While you stated that you "tipped" the dealer - that is your right but in actuality do the contestants on "Deal or No Deal" tip the girls holding the brief cases? Do the contestants on "Do you wanna be a Millionaire" tip Regis Phillman? Do the contestants on "Wheel of Fortune" tip Vanna? Your case was an exception because you played online and there were not "dealers" involved in the preliminary round(s). In fact you played the Monopoly version - Advance to Boardwalk. In LIVE events there was much discussion last year about vig, fees, etc., associated with BJT - for example the 100+10. That 10% vig that players pay - isn't THAT supposed to cover a portion of the dealers fees? But a deeper question is this - according to your definition of a "tip" - payment for service rendered. Does the "quality" of the service matter? How much are the dealers making in the first place? Is it minimum wage and they mainly rely on tips? Do they get paid a daily "rate" for tournament play? If I get knocked out of the tournament without winning a single hand, the dealer is sourly and I didn't enjoy myself does that mean I should "tip" for the heck of it anyway? Finally when we tip in a restaruant it's done for good service - the better the service the larger the tip. Nicer waiters/waitresses usually get more. However if the food stinks (doesn't meet our expectations) is the level of the tip affected? Should it be? Why are the food servers tipped but not the people who actually cook it?
Tip something I tip differently at different events. At a comp-ed event I'll normally tip a little more (since there is no entry, free room and food). Now for tipping after each round I advance, normally I'll throw the dealers a $5 after I advance, but this is at locations that I play often and know the dealers personally. I think most seasoned tournament players tip out around 3% (about what the UBT would take out off top) and that is fine. I prefer to give a little more when I cash in either 1st or 2nd place, since those are normally the only two spots that paid that much. Once again this is just how I tip out, each players is different, but if you play at a regular casino, I do suggest you take better care of the dealers there. Just that little extra can make the differance in the time you play, or table, and seat you receive. In the events like just held in Tunica where the Fitz & Gold Strike hosted tournaments on the same weekend, having the dealers and tournament staff on your side can come in to play in a big way for scheduling around multiple events. The one thing I DON"T CARE FOR, the players who don't tip at all. I once saw a player win $100,000 at the Stardust and never tip a cent! His reply when ask why he didn't tip...I have kids at home. Duh, if that is an issue why are you in Vegas to begin with.
Tipping This has been awhile. A guy at one of the quarterly tournaments won second ($40000), payed in cash, reached in his pocket pulled out a one held it in the air and flattened it on the table for a tip. Me and my wife like to tip good. The dealers and pit bosses have always remembered us. You are right about them more likely to work with you, somebody they like compared with the guy who left a $1.
As mentioned in prior threads, there seems to be no established protocol for tipping in BJ tournaments. When I first started playing tournaments (14 years) I was told by a number of players to tip about 10%. This seemed to be a fair amount as most of my wins were 500 or less. I was hesitant to play any event that had a buy in of 50 or more. After a little success I graduated to 100$ tournaments and surprisingly won a 10000 event with 2 100$ rebuys.The casino proceeded to take both state and Federal taxes from my winnings. Since I had been tipping 10%, I felt compelled to do so here. After tipping the dealer 800$ (net after taxes was 8000) I began having second thoughts about the amount of tip. 10% seemed rather high. I have since changed my tipping to a 3 to 5% total, based on the payout of the tourn. Small payouts get 5%, large get 3%.Small payouts are 5000 total purse. Tip only if I reach the finals. This method has worked well for me. I don't feel as if I shorted the dealer nor have I tipped more than I should. Tipping is a subject that riles the feathers of many players. Many feel that the dealer is "JUST DOING HIS JOB" and no further compensation is necessary. Because dealers (and others in the service industry) rely on tips to supplement their low wages, I feel that we must tip to receive adequate service.
TIpping There are some good messages on some older threads on this site on tipping - try a search for them - for myself - I tip if I cash - that's the basic - no cash=no tip - except - once in a while I'll throw a few dollars to the dealers if they are especially nice and competent - that's a tip for nice and good service - no different than a restaurant when I cash - tips are always figured on 'after tax' and I always allow 33% for taxes - remember you will have federal and state income taxes to pay - and think about your tax bracket - and be a little generous to yourself - but remember small pay offs are not going to be reported - so - if you are not reporting the win - don't stiff the dealers by calculating in taxes - then I will tip up to 10% of the after tax win - depending on size of win (smaller the win - the higher percentage I tip - once won $50 and tipped $10 - dealers were very nice and competent) - usually tip about 10% for wins under $250 - also - if local casino or a tournament I play a lot - then I will be a little more generous - so - look at after tax amount - how nice/good were the dealers - if it is your local tourney or one you play a lot - and then calculate a reasonable percentage of your after tax for the tip - for very small wins - try 10% - for large wins - reduce the percentage - for wins in the $1,000 to $2,000 range - I've tipped from $25 to $200 - the $25 was probably a little cheap - but I wasn't very impressed with the tournament or dealers - the $200 was a little too generous - but it was my first win and at my local tournament - so - usually tip about 5% for wins in the $1,000 - $2,000 range - after taxes -
Im surprised any regular would be asking this question AGAIN! We have gone over this in depth only a short time back. During that period is was brought up S Yama and some others had had a quality discussion a year or more back. Try searching the topic if you cant remember a couple months back! BTW, one thing I see that bugs me, players dont give a small toke for a table advance. Even in a mini its worth a couple bucks for an advance. http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3660&highlight=toke
Here's the logic - no money won means no money to tip with. This applies to live BJ as well as tournaments. Outside of TXtourplayer, I seldom see any tipping in a BJ tournament by players not finishing in the money.
I guess its seldom I see the "advance" tip as well. I usually tip a 5 spot or more tho depending on what the buy amount was. I kind of see it as a bribe to keep the dealers and floor happy and want to have BJTs lol.
I agree with toolman, the only time I have tipped a dealer prior to the final table is after advancing from a semi-final table when I knew I would cash and that was only $10 at most. To tip dealers for a player advantage (favors) in scheduling etc. is not a tip but rather a bribe which I would object to adamantly if not given the same consideration without a tip (bribe).
After the fact... A $5 tip after the table is completed and you've advance shouldn't be concidered a bribe, at least not in my opinion. When you think about 20 - 30 dealers (tips are not just for the tournament dealers, but the entire shift) so $5 dollars between lets say 20 dealers works out to only .25 cents before taxes, not much of a bribe...lol I look at it this way, in the first round I save money on the re-buy and on any later rounds I'm that much closer to cashing so whats a few bucks for a tip?
Cruise dealers Rick, On your recent cruise the BJT dealers: 1. Were they separate from the casino employees? 2. How much did you pay them? 3. Did you withhold any money from the prize pool for tips? Secondly except for the "karma" argument and for frequenting an establishment theme, I really haven't read any valid reason for tipping of dealers - except the "that's the way its been done in the past theme" I'm sure we can all agree that it doesn't help us get better cards or enforcement of the rules (then it would be bribes) If we tip because of the better service - valid reason to an extent - but once again if the BJT director holds money out in the beginning anything above and beyond dilutes the winnings
Tipping on the cruise I agree, just like a party of 6 or more out eating. If qratuity is already included why pay more unless you receive great service, same with the dealers. The norm for blackjack tournaments is the higher the winnings the lower the percentage the tip given. Example: a $10,000 win I can see 3% up to 10% at the most, but $50,000 about 3%-7%, $100,000 - 3%-5%, and most $1,000,000 winners tipped out a flat 1% = $10,000. Now is this a stead fast rule, no! But more or less whet most players go by that I've seen over the past 20 or so years. And last but not least, I can assure everyone here that FGK is not cheap when it comes to taking care of the dealers, so don't read anything into his questions, like that he doesn't tip well.
Deja Vu As others have indicated, we just recently went through this tipping thing! Anyway, my MO is that the size of my tips is directly proportionate to the treatment I received. I don't feel that tipping should be automatic. Why should we tip a rude waitress or dealer? I know it can't be avoided because of tip pooling, usually but I'll do my best to stiff them if I perceive them to be rude and inconsiderate. I'm not a tightwad but tip well when it's warranted. As I said before, my tips are figured on NET winnings (after taxes, entry fees, re-entrys, etc.) Billy C
Rick Thanks for the info regarding this subject about tipping as it relates to BJT. I think the more it is discussed the more a consensus or guidelines can be “developed” so prevent extremes from occurring – from over to under tipping. Your point about having competent dealers is a valid point. Are there occasional dolts? Sure but it’s like that with anything right? In the past there were discussions about how to make BJT a win-win for players and casinos. Well the dealers are an integral part of that equation and should also be incorporated into the discussion. I wonder if the dealers would be happier with a “fee” for dealing for the day or working for their hourly wage and splitting tips? When only the final table gets paid the burden falls on the winners to “pay the way” for all the other players. Some would argue that it’s only fair since the winners were the only ones who made any money. Other methods would be the fee assessment added directly to the entry fee so that ALL players would contribute to the dealers pay. The difference is how you approach this is your perspective. If you view the BJT win as just extra recreational money that it above and beyond then you’ll be more likely to tip in the upper range. If however, you look at the money as a ROI after travel expenses, taxes, entry fees, etc., then the effects of more money from the prize pool continues to diminish the overall effect of the win. Thanks for all the input and opinions.
I played in a tournament not long ago where it was stated in the rules that "3% of the prize pool will go to Dealer Appreciation". Isn't that a great term - "DEALER APPRECIATION". Of course it's a forced tip but it takes care of the question of "how much" and eliminates the tight wads attitude. I like the idea and would would like it to become universal just as in a restaurant "a 18% gratuity will be added for parties over 4". Now the question of whether we should discuss tipping just because we discussed it before. My answer is: If enough members want to continue to discuss a subject related to BJ tournaments then that discussion should proceed. If others are bored with it then they can choose not to read the thread - it's really that simple.
Toolman I was thinking those wanting to continue the tipping thread after in depth analysis might be the bored LOL Ive been think about what toolman and rookie said about not tipping until money is earned or late in the rounds. For me I think its important to tip all the way thru. keeping the staff happy and enthusiastic about BJTs is important not only at management level but all the way down to floor personnel and dealers. A small toke for every advance helps IMO and in a way is a "pay to play" channel. For me this is 5$ min tip for table advance. Just in case some didnt pick up on it, here is another nice thread. http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1032&highlight=dealer+tipping
My PERSONAL opinion falls along those lines myself - just not in the 18% category Again I agree with you on this subject. My only reason for bringing this up to the forefront is: 1. For any newer members 2. While prior threads may have addressed the topic sometimes its good to re-visit a concept to see how &/or if our opinions have changed about it. While people sometimes accuse our current crop of Presidential hopefuls of "flip flopping" I thing that on certain topics a reversal of stance may not be political as much as coming to a deeper understanding on a certain subject either thru learning or life experience(s) It is only when we take the time to put our thoughts into words that we can truly comprehend/defend our POV and thereby come to better grips with what we believe and how we arrived at those beliefs.
Forced tipping is Bad And it can backfire. Two weeks ago I took my girlfreind to gourmet restaurant at local casino with the help of a comp voucher. When our waitress brought the bill it had a 15% tip added on. When questioned by me she said a lot of people don't tip when using the comp vouchers, thus the 15% add on. I truthfully told her that she would have gotten 25% tip from me because food was good and she was pleasant. I let her know that I was not happy about the automatic add on and hinted that she would only get that for a tip. Because my girlfreind hostesses at a "fine food" place and she's big on tipping (coupled with the fact that I had a few glasses of merlot in me) I weakened and gave another 10-15%. Next day I wished I hadn't. While it might not be right to take it out on the waitress, my guess is that she would have told the policy makers what happened. I feel the same way about tournament tipping. Forced tipping is BS. Rick mentioned a guy that supposedly stiffed dealer after a $100,000 win. If that did happen it's a one in a million deal. Generally speaking, tourney players are more than generous If that did happen, I think the guy would have been ridiculed so much by his peers and other finalists that he wouldn't do it again
