Strategy and psychology I’d be very interested in hearing from other players about something that is eating at me lately. Joep alluded to this in his commentary about the UBT episode 4 regarding Monica and Big Chuck. I’ll refer to it henceforth as psychology betting (PB). I’m in the process of re-reading Wong for the umpteenth time in hopes of gleaning additional information to get me past the novice mistake phase into the “playing with the big boys/girls” phase. Most of the book deals with the final two hands, in particular the final hand giving examples. I love doing that and it has helped me immensely. Nevertheless I feel like that is only “part of the story” Basic strategy and percentages can be calculated and figured to the point where it “could” become robotic – heaven knows that I’m not even close to that point I merely state it because I could see that happening. During specific matches I have discovered that I play differently (betting and sometimes strategy) when I recognize certain players or I’m at a different level. For example when playing in the opening rounds of UBT tourney’s I am much more conservative and I allow the other players to make mistakes i.e., self-destruct. On the Bet21.com tourneys when I play the same very conservative format I am not as successful. My rationale is that the players are more experienced and make less self-destructive bets/moves. Finally when I play against the pro’s/experienced (I include many of you here on this site into that category) I find myself constantly at the back of the pack when using the same playing/betting style. I guess my question to the veteran tourney players is this – do you plan your game and play it regardless of the level of other players or do you tailor your play to the players? Is personal consistency better or being fluid with the game better? For a concrete example: Basic strategy says surrender 16 vs. dealer’s 10 or hit a stiff 16 against dealers 17 or better. Nevertheless I’ve observed many a member here violate those rules (I’ve done that myself – sometimes beneficial sometimes not) Advice, recommendations, thoughts……
maths I'm afraid fgk If a push is an acceptable result then hitting 15 or 16 once is better than standing vs Dealer 10 (Stand = 23.02%; Hit 15 = 27.77%; Hit 16 = 26%). If a push or surrender is no good and you really must win your hand you are better off to stand on 15 or 16 (Hit 15 = 21.85%; Hit 16 = 20.08%) Cheers reachy Added Later: Stand on 16 vs Dealer Ace if you must win, hit 15. (Stand = 20.13%; Hit 15 = 21.38%; Hit 16 = 19.83%) Added Later Still: Stand on 16 vs Dealer 8 or 9 if you must win. There is only a fraction of a %age in the Dealer 8 scenario but it's still slightly better to stand.
My opinion is that being fluid or adaptive to each specific situation is better than one consistence strategy. I wish that I can be adaptive to each player's skill level, but it is not easy. Because sometimes, I think it is a fluid move, when in fact, it might not be instead a self-destructive move. What I am trying to say is that even being fluid has to be based on some sort of principles, so you know that you are right regardless win or lose. Otherwise you'll be wondering whether or not you made the right move. But like I said, it's not easy, it takes experience, learning, and most important, an open mind. Only when you can take your skill above "robotic", then you can be ahead of the pack.
A double-edged sword This is an interesting topic. I recently decided that I ought to pay more attention to the psychological aspects of the game, especially in the UBT format which offers more scope for such things. I tried out some trickery on the final hand of a TEC game and managed to induce my opponent into surrendering and locking himself out of any chance of winning. The feeling of smugness this gave me is probably a dangerous thing. Afterwards, when I thought about the situation more carefully, it was by no means clear that I had done the right thing; it just happened to have worked out. The worry would be that you could get so much more pleasure from being seen to outwit someone than from simply playing the percentages that you might be inclined to overdo it.
Colin's Double Edged Sword: You hit on an important point as far as EBJ. How successful on-line could be debatable. But clearly, (you don't get em) in the televised EBJ UBT there is psych and strategy abounding. When the players are at the level the final "tablists" are, one has to move beyond the numbers.(Use them, know them, ya, ya) But, secret bet, secret action, low stack elemination, range between min and max bets. That's a lot of mind bending to play with.
Mind games Psychology is definitely a part of TBJ but we often don't realise it or label it that way. For example, a successful surrender trap is the use of psychology to my mind. You have induced an opponent to make an erroneous bet/action that you can then capitalise on. Secret bets and actions allow plenty of opportunity for "bluffing". "Coffee housing", as I believe they call it in poker, is a way of inducing other mistakes from our opponents. HD calls it smack talking but I prefer the former; talking opponents into making incorrect bets, folding/surrendering/doubling/hitting when it's the worst path. All the use of the mind over matter. Cheers Reachy
Coffee housing? Personally, I've never heard the term "Coffee housing" used anywhere let alone referring to poker. Maybe this is unique to the UK? Anyone else ever heard this term?
Ref: Maybe it is just UK-based slang? http://www.practicalgambling.com/poker_terms.html#C http://www.pokerroom.com/main/page/games/pokerLingo Cheers Reachy
I'm glad you provided references for that presumption. For a minute there I though Coffee housing was something George Michael would be doing over in England
Coffeehousing i've heard this term used before, but believe it or not a more popular term (especially in poker) for this type of activity is actually called 'Hollywooding' someone or 'Going to Hollywood' for the kind of acting elements that go into it. Kinda fitting, dontchya think? Psychology is perhaps the most importatnt 'undiscovered advantage' left in blackjack tournaments. In poker we get to see our cards before we bet; not so in blackjack... but in poker, when playing a hand, you are able to use a whole host of psychological and historical tells to allow you to put your opponents on a range of hands -- in bjt we can use the same types of skills to put opponents on a range of BETS, especially helpful when acting out of position or trying to put someone on a secret bet. 2 recent examples come to mind, both of them i'm afraid not the best result for me. Joe mentioned last week a big secret bet elimination hand he, Ken Smith, and i were involved in. figuring that ONE of them would have taken the low (or at least middle), i waved off on a big blackjack rather than doubling it to go for the super-high (one of the only times i DIDN'T double a blackjack in a key moment last week, actually!). Well, turns out i psyched myself out here and ended up eliminated when both their winning secret bets revealed big bets. Another example happened online just a few nights ago (yes, even out of the country i'm wired into Bet21), playing against a table full of amateurs who were betting without much regard to the intricacies of betting correlations. Using the psychological aspects of profiling my opponents, i went into a key elimination hand (in which the guy behind me made a blackjack) thinking he would not realize he actually would have to double down on his natural 21 in order to beat my split tens; turns out i was wrong and he instantly doubled behind me, winning the match. It really sucked because when i split my tens (though a win/win woulda still been in my favor, i had to split to get the high back on his blackjack), my first card was another 10, and had i split AGAIN i coulda beat even his DD. Not wanting to open myself up to more variance -- and confidant he would just wave off on his big blackjack, locking me in to advance -- i didn't resplit. Talking smack or 'hollywooding' people may be a big part of the psychological nature of blackjack, but for my money most of the profiling comes from watching betting patterns and tendencies, seeing how my opponents react to me giving them both good AND bad information, and of course the secret bet.... -hd.
Coffeewooding or Hollyhousing ..... The bottom line is you gotta have that read. Darn it HD that was a really well thought out and lucid post with some good information in it too! Now I've gotta go back and redo my psychological profile on YOU..... Just when you thought it was safe to come out and play....
Hi Everyone, I am a scrabble tournament player (as well as blackjack). I have been 'coffeehoused' and believe me it drives a player nutso! Coffee Housing is a well known term in scrabble play. It is frowned upon and addressed in the official tournament rules for the national scrabble association (NSA). If you can take it, ha, I have cut and pasted the rules regarding 'coffeehousing' below..... Appendix D: Guidelines for Players and Directors 9. Inappropriate Behavior Speaking aloud during play is often distracting and can mislead the opponent. A player who does this purposefully is considered to be acting unethically. It is every player's right to ask his/her opponent to remain silent during play. While many people often play the game in informal social gatherings where it may be accepted by the group to talk during play, players should understand that tournament conditions require that each player respect his/her opponent's right to concentrate fully during play. The Director has the power to intervene on behalf of a player whose opponent is showing such disrespect. Here are some examples of what you should NOT do: 1. Purposefully mispronounce your play ("RE-STING"), hoping to draw a careless challenge. 2. Play a phony-looking word which you know is acceptable (CALENDER) but intentionally saying something like: "I'm not sure if it ends in AR or ER." 3. Saying "You may want to challenge this", either when you know the word is good, or when it's not good, and you feel your statement will suppress a challenge. In the first case you may not get challenged, but your opponent may be reluctant to add an S to the word. 4. [Edited 2004-05-01] You play Playing an obviously acceptable word (e.g., APRICOTS) and do doing a lot of talking about it ("It took me a long time to find this word with these letters") to divert attention from a phoney hook you used to get your word down (i.e.e.g., the S hooked onto AH). 5. [Edited 2004-05-01] The game is close, the Q is still out and whoever gets it will be stuck with it. You play a letter and draw a tile, leaving 3 others. Immediately you begin to moan about your bad luck. Your opponent feels they s/he can safely play 3 tiles and draw the last 3 from the bag. What will s/he think about your moaning when s/he draws the Q? This may be more than you wanted to know about coffeehousing ! Verymossgreen
Tournament Scrabble Tell me more! How does tournament scrabble differ from regular scrabble if at all? Is there money in it? Cheers R1E1A1C3H4Y4
Tournament Scrabble Hi Reachy and all, Yes, tournament scrabble gives top finishers cash prizes. The first place in the national tourney (now called the Scrabble Open) is 25,000 dollars. There are different divisions -- ranging from novice to expert in every tournament. Here is detailed info on the national scrabble association website. http://www2.scrabble-assoc.com/ Scrabble tournaments are all over the world...Australia, Great Britain, Canada. There are many in the United States. A Wall Street journalist wrote a book about tournament Scrabble a few years ago entitled WORD FREAK (by Stephan Fatsis). He became interested in Scrabble tournaments and strived to make it to the expert level. In his book he rubs elbows with some of the more interesting 'scrabblers' and travels to different locations/traditional venue sites and makes an interesting story out of it. There have been several movies about tournament scrabble (which are now out on DVD ), three that come to mind are: WORD WARS, Scrabylon, and WordPlay. They are fun to watch. One of the early successful players was Joe Edley, whose job as a night watchman afforded him plenty of time to read the Scrabble dictionary at his leisure. There are a lot of characters in the world of Scrabble! Lately, a lot of young folks have been joining in on the tournament scene. Even a program called School Scrabble is ongoing...which is tournament solely for the school aged crowd. Interesting to note that there is no age minimum or maximum for playing in the NSA national scrabble association tournaments. Briefly, Tournament Scrabble is a one on one kind of play with a timer like you see used in chess tournaments. Some tournaments are small (20 folks) and some are larger (200 -800 plus participants) Different cash prizes for the different tournaments. Each player is afforded 25 minutes to complete the game and each minute thereafter is 'charged' ten points off of their final score. Usually tournament players 'track' which tiles have been used in each play as a tool to help them figure out what tiles are left in the bag, etcetera. Each player keeps abreast of the score during the game. At the end of the game each player verifies a tally slip which is turned into the director. Tournaments can range from seven games to over thirty plus... Many of the Expert level 'top' players are mathematically gifted and memorize 'stems' of letters and the combinations which make up words. Others just have an interest in words. Some do a combination of both. Some just attend the tourneys to enjoy playing their favorite word game and to meet others who enjoy Scrabble play. Players aren't required to know the definitions to the words at all. The played words have to be legal words from the Official Tournament and Club Word List , which is published in book form. If there is a disagreement about a word's validity then the players can either ask for Word Judge's decision or they can merely consult with the computer stations at the tournament. A 'phoney' word, when challenged, can cost a player a turn in the game, but if it goes unchallenged then points are counted and play continues. Many phoneys can get by...equivalent to bluffing in Poker I guess. Scrabble play appears to be addictive, or so many claim that they are addicted to it, ha. A great place to play Scrabble online is at isc.ro. The software is terrific. A short free download of the game and then you are off to the races. I highly recommend that site! I ran into BJMailman at a local casino and we both (and his wife) are in the running for the Million Dollar Black Jack Tourney going on in southern Oklahoma. VeryMossGreen
Association Interesting post vmgreen, Is the National Scrabble Association a regulatory body for the game that has an influence on the control and organisation of tournaments? I recall that some members on here have discussed setting up a Blackjack Association in order to represent the players but not heard anything for a while. Andy.
Scrabble is unique in that the game is owned by Hasbro, and Hasbro has an incentive to promote their game. Poker, Blackjack, bridge, etc. is not owned by anyone, so it's a bit harder to imagine an official players BJ association, apart from the pros behind the UBT.
I've been playing scrabble I went to the website that vmgreen mentioned and have been playing scrabble. It's great fun and very strategic. The scrabble "client" (not sure that's the correct word, Colin?) is very old-fashioned and takes alot of getting used to especially after playing on something fairly slick like bet21.com. Anybody fancies a game just look out for Reachy. Cheers Reachy
