What's a good rate in how many time you money?

What do you pros or semi pros think the percentage is that you money in tourneys? 10%? 25%? I have monied 3 times (won 2, 3rd in one) in my first 15 tourneys or so but I have no idea if that is any good.

 

Good or beginner's luck

I'm not a "pro" or "semi pro" or anything near that, so I can't answer for them as to the number of times they finish in the money. I just have a comment, observation if you will.

I assume your wins are at Brick & Mortar Casinos and not on-line. Congratulations on your wins, your record marks a great start. Taking 1st place once out of 7 or 8 tournaments is a record anyone would be proud of - BUT. More play is necessary to determine if you are experiencing beginner's luck or if your play is really that good. I have seen and heard of beginner's luck many times from players just starting out in tournaments. It seems to happen an uncanny number of times. Not trying to take anything away from you but if your record continues at this pace, you can become one of those chosen few (if there are any, indeed) that can make a full time living from tournaments. Good Luck.

 

Win rates

gowifb: Here's a post which Joep wrote on a thread I started which includes some win rate discussion. You can see the player quoted ("Joep2") states his 3-year average final table rate is 17.1%.

The rest of this discussion is under "World Series of Blackjack--Thread Title: Going Pro..." Maybe this will give you some useful info on this interesting topic. Anyone have any new win rate data?


Joep's post in full:

"Thanks to Elyssez

I finally found the old post that I was referring to, it was back in June and some guy named Joep2 posted that is why I could not find it last night. I was looking under the wrong Joep :joker:

The Title of the thread was " Losing Streak Again" in June of this year


Mr Darklord your post made me go back and look on my records as far as my final table results

Your success rate of 25% to 30% is something that would be hard to accomplish over a longer period of final table results

I check my records and here they are

Keep in mind all these tournaments that I have listed were multi table tournaments that required at least winning 2 rounds others were up to 4 and 5 rounds to get to a final table

There are some players who will play in a 12 player tournament that has 2 tables of 6 and advances 3 from each table to the finals.

I have never played in that format but if I did I would not list it as a final table appearance. Unless of course GSN wanted to know how many Finals I had been in :joker:

In the year 2003

Tournament played 147
Final Tables 25 which equals 17 %

In the year 2004

Tournaments played 84

Final Tables 14 which equals 16.6 %

In the year 2005

Tournaments played 26

Final Tables 6 which equals 23 %

Over all 17.1 %

As you can see my numbers are pretty consistent over the last 3 years

The only thing that has changed is my ability to play in them as the numbers of tournaments played have steadily decreased in the last 3 years.

I hope some other player's here would reveal their results so the new players can fully understand the numbers of this crazy game that we all love, live ,sleep, eat and drink for

Here's to variance :cheers:


Joep2"

 

gowifb

that's a good record - 20% to final table -I have been playing a little less than one year - and am hitting 25% to the final table - with almost all the tourneys requiring two tables to advance to finals (occasionally more) - usually with win to advance or two advance then single advance (occasionaly all tablers mul;tiple advance - particularly if more than two tables to final) - and I am making a profit off of my play - all smaller tourneys - but I can get in 2 or 3 or 4 each month it seems - if I look for opportunities -

I would recommend tracking your play - by recording each "try" - a "try" being a buy-in or rebuy - as each represents a new "try" at a tourney - and computing what the raw percentage for advancing to the final table would be for the average player under that format - ie - if the format is 2 of 6 advance from qualifier to semi; and 1 of 6 advance from semi to final - then the raw odds would be 2/6*1/6=0.0556 to advance to final - add up all the raw odds for all trys - then compare to your final table percentage - this will let you compute your 'edge' to the final table over the average player, for the tourneys you play in - to get the 'edge' per table - which is the standard way of rating player's edge - take the edge to final table and calculate Et=Ef^#T, where Et is the edge per table, Ef is the edge to the final table - and #T is the average number of tables needed to advance through to get to the final table - ^ is the symbol to take the root of a number - so use your spreadsheet -

in example - if you have played 15 tourneys, in which you have done 12 rebuys along with your buy-ins - all of which require two tables to get to the final table - all of which are 1 of 6 to advance each table - then the raw odds would be 1/6*1/6= 0.0278; 0.0278*27 = 0.75 final tables for the average player - and you have 3 final tables - which gives you an Ef of 3/0.75=4.00; and your Et would be 4.00^2=2.00 - or- you would be twice as good as the average player -

as toolman says - short term variance can make a big difference in how your performance rates out - I would suggest tracking for at least 50 trys - preferably closer to 100 - to let variance equal out - I am at 79 tries right now - and compute out to an Et of 1.44 - or a 44% advantage over the average player -

but that is in small tourneys - mostly little, remore Indian casinos or Laughlin Minis - I doubt if I would have that advantage in larger tourneys - such as Joep plays in - or any of the 'big dogs' - but would probably still be a somewhat better than average player, even in the larger tourneys - I would be quite happy if I could get to the final table 17% of the time in major tourneys - like Joep does -

the usefulness of tracking is two fold - it lets you gauge your play and keep track of improvement - and lets you know what tourneys you are playing well in and which you are not (I use a conservative betting approach - and do better at multiple advance tables) - and also lets you calculate your EV for any tournament you are thinking of entering - so that you can focus on those tourneys where you have the best potential to make money -

 

My average rate for the past one year is 20 to 25%. Previously, I did post that my average is between 25 - 30%, but at the time, it wasn't long enough, probably 6 months or so. But after one year, that number seems to getting more and more closer to the average. I hope it stays at 20% for a longer period of time.

 

Six pack

Darklord you sexy beast, you!


Cheers

Reachy

 

I dunno.

There must be a whopping more tournaments out there somewhere for just three(and you know what "they" say..... the posters are only the tip of the iceberg, you'll never get silent BOB to admit anything) posters achieving over 20 per cent win rate.

I had a feeling, a long time ago, tournaments were where it's at to make money, but.....some folks have been raking it in. Where's "Your Book" "Your Web Site/ Sight"

 

noman

the trick is to find small tournaments in remote Indian casinos located in the most desolate parts of the Sonoran Desert - especially those where the casinos put in a lot of their own money into the prize pool - one reason some of us like to play the Golden Acorn in beautiful Campo, CA - is that they run about 200% equity when they are setting their prize pool at $5,000 (about 50-60 players for a $15/$10 buy-in/rebuy) - wild card up to four players into the final by drawing - etc. - and even better when they were running a $10,000 prize pool for a $10 buy-in - and still could only draw 50 players - a lot of these little tourneys are such positive equity that the average player could make money off of them over the long run - and when the 'average' player is an 85 year-old snow-bird well into his senility - well - that's money in the bank even for us ploppies -

 

HURRAY for PBTs

RKuczek, you let the cat out of the bag. Now I have a better understanding of why some on this site are reporting such a phenomenal win rate! That does it, I'm quiting my job and moving to the most desolate parts of the Sonoran Desert. Oh, I don't work. OK, noman, Monkeysystem, Dan Mayo and anyone else that wants to join us, let's get packin'. Yes Reachy, you can come too - then you can play in real tournaments.

On a more serious side:
In the overall reality of Blackjack Tournaments, excluding the PHONY BALONEYS*, seems to me that getting to the final table over 10% of the time is something to be proud of and those that can do that should be envied. For example: A tournament with 150 players and 6 at the final table means the "average" player will make the final table 1 out of 25 tries or 4%. 10% would be considered quit good. Needless to say, the more ploppies the better as the skilled player will get to the final more often. All this is over a long period of time of course.

DEFINITIONS:
* PHONY BALONEY TOURNAMENT (or PBT) - A Blackjack Tournament where the probability of making the final table is so high that a ploppy+, or someone on PloppyAid, can look good.

 

Come to the Desert!!!!

At all of our tourneys - we promise at least one drunk-all-in-guy and at least one clueless-cute-girl at every table

 

Tourney winnings:

RKucek: Thanks for the explanation: I would have to join toolman's team to take advantage of that.

You see, toolman and I, while we have maybe 10, soon to be 11(and the newest an Indian place) within two hours drive, none of those current 10 offer tournaments...The couple that did, only offered them as strict equity for the casino.

Tool has driven farther to Wis and even to Mich and S. Indiana. Some of the Michigan tourney's Dan Mayo and Sweetie will tell you are good. There's some good Canadian tourney's.

Tool will go for the competition, the amenities, etc, as a personal preference.

That being said: I've considered a couple of the regarded Michigan tournies and even a couple of the Canadian.

But, I have an "operational bias" against the Indian Casinos. And yes, I know the Michigan folks haven't experienced a problem. I have a problem driving the two hours, or even longer to a promoted tourney, that then is either cancelled, or has the payout or rules changed.

So, I've mostly played in the BIG ones in vegas, (mostly non-invitational), or in Tunica cause then the effort, the investment and the competition is rewarded for me. Call it my utility, my equity. The total number isn't great, but it's been in the ones that can generate the most return for my investment of time and money. When schedule has allowed, I've played in mini's in vegas and miss the heydays when you could get three or four in a week.

If mini's were held in the area, I'd be there. If the new Indian Casino demonstrates operational integrity and holds any, I'll be there. In the meantime, I've had to scratch the itch with global and the UBT qualifiers.....And space my forays to live tourneys that meet my criteria, no matter the level of competition.