Here's how the last few weeks appear to me: The latest conflict seemed to start after JoeP took on the mantle of UBT spokesperson. Lots of people started asking questions about UBT, some innocent, some not. In particular, TxTourPlayer seemed hell-bent on pointing out any possible flaw in UBT, and working hard to try to make the concept fail. Understandably, that ruffled feathers on the UBT side. Barney Stone jumped into the fray, and the messages got ever nastier on both sides. Barney questioned Joe's sexuality, Joe resorted to name-calling. TxTourPlayer had apparently chosen to stop posting, but Joe suspects that he is secretly coordinating the posts of Barney Stone by private messages to TxTourPlayer. Apparently, JoeP uses PMs to confront Barney with that accusation, and as far as I can tell JoeP makes a statement that he can "follow the sequence of private messages between other users". Apparently he specifically told Barney that he could not READ those messages, but by the time this got told to resident pot-stirrer TxTourPlayer, that part of the message got lost. Tx emails me and asks whether it is true that Joe as a moderator can read PMs. I tell him no, that can't be done. Tx says that Joe told Barney that he could read them. I remove Joe's moderator privileges until I can determine the truth of the matter. I'm pretty fed up with everybody involved at this point. In one of my emails to Tx, I mention that I had pulled Joe's moderator status because he seemed to always be in the middle of any trouble. In the same email, I ask Tx to keep this information to himself. Next up, I'm out of town at a college football game in New Orleans when my phone rings. It seems that Tx has now posted a public message saying that JoeP had his moderator status pulled because he was trying to read other user's PMs. Yet another twisted version of what I said, and additional evidence that anything said to Tx will be repeated to anyone and everyone, and usually twisted in meaning. This despite my SPECIFIC REQUEST to him to keep that message to himself. Why the secrecy on my part? Simple. I didn't want to have to deal with Joe and explain why I no longer felt it appropriate for him to be a moderator. It's true that he never once violated my trust in him with moderator privileges. Still, I stand by my decision that it is not in this board's best interest to have him as a moderator. Not because of anything he did, but instead because I disagree strongly with his method of responding to people who disagree with him. If he is a moderator here, apparently some people think that equates to my condoning has actions. Back to the sequence of events... I'm away from a computer when Tx drops his latest bomb, so I call Swog and ask him to delete the thread, which he does. Right about here is where I've had enough, and I take a one week sabbatical from the site. I lose track of what went on after that. Apparently there were phone calls taped and played on the radio show. (I heard part of the Carnival call, but none of the other call that has been discussed.) Now I understand there are threats of legal action, with Joe thinking of suing Tx and Tx or Carnival or somebody threatening to sue Joe. Just great. You both look silly, and everybody who lines up on either side to egg on this fight is right up there on the silly list too. Is this all about UBT vs TBT? I don't know at this point, but here's my opinion on the two: UBT: Great opportunities, and I'll continue to attend pretty much every event I can. One area of improvement... It would be nice to have sincere questions either answered sincerely or a response of "I don't know" is quite OK. Insincere questions by pot-stirrers? Well, those just shouldn't be asked, and shame on any of you who do so. To the UBT hating crowd: I just don't get it. It's quite easy to see the value UBT is bringing to our world of tournaments. Even if you have personality conflicts with some of the people involved for whatever reason, try to look at the big picture. This is very good stuff. TBT: This also can be a great thing for the tournament community. There's no point in bashing this good idea. If Tx can make this happen, it will mean a dramatic increase in the number of open events available. That's good for all of us. If for whatever reason you disagree, my recommendation is make your points in a civil way, or just keep your mouth shut. You don't have to participate if you don't want to. Now some advice to each of the 9 top posting members, in order of number of posts: TxTourPlayer: Quit with the threats of legal action already. I assume that Joe's threats of the same will subside shortly thereafter. I remember when you guys got along OK, and life was good. Give up the feud. Realize that UBT's success doesn't threaten you, and hopefully UBT will realize that TBT doesn't threaten it. One more thing... Learn to keep your mouth shut when it's in your best interest. KenSmith: Man, I need to get out more. JoeP: Quit with the name-calling. Maybe we need JoeP2 back. I understand that you're a New York guy, and it's hard to let anyone have the last word in an argument, especially when you feel their comments are wrong or inappropriate. So what! Suck it up! IGNORE them, or here's a canned reply you can use. "I respectfully disagree with your post." Nuf said. Feel free to copy and paste that response anytime you're tempted to blow up. Reachy: Wow, #4 in lifetime posts already. Amazing. You're one prolific Brit! It appears after my sabbatical that you reined in your posts a bit. A little humor adds to the community, a ton of it weighs us down. Recent activity looks pretty Goldilocks to me though. You know.. Just right. And, my wife still loves Flat Eric. Carry on. fgk42: Just so you know, I lost interest in the film thing after about half a dozen. If you've said anything important in the films since then, I haven't seen it. You were a good example of someone asking sincere questions about UBT and TBT. Don't let the fire consume you too. You came to BJT as someone new to the game but dedicated to learning about tournaments. That's a powerful force for good. noman: If I understand more of your posts, maybe I'd be pissed off at you too. But it seems you get a pass today. toolman1: Thanks for your recent efforts to encourage use of the calendar. We got a few posts there, but there's always more to do. Barney Stone: No more stoking the flames of the fire. If you don't have something productive to post, just don't post. Let this feud between you and Joe die down. It's pointless and unproductive. Just let it go. Hollywood: You've been so quiet lately it's scary. As usual, you're one smart guy. C'mon back now. Well, that's quite a load of stuff. Will it make any difference in what goes on here? I hope so.
Thank You Ken There will be no need for Joep 2 to reappear and I will temporary break my self imposed exile of not posting. The reason for the self imposed exile is that I felt that my post and or response to ones have become a distraction for the site. I have always had the utmost respect for you as a person and this site, I have respected all of your board related decision in the past,even if I didn't agree with them .That was until the last few weeks when I just could not for the life of me see how you were not seeing the whole entire picture. I'm a part of the problem and I have never denied it,I just didn't want to be considered the whole entire problem. It sure as hell seemed like that. especially with your most recent actions of just standing by while I had to fend off one insult or lie about me day after day.Then when I leave the "High Road" and respond it was blasted.Very frustrating Tonight your post as far as I'm concerned has hit the nail on the head and the way you have laid out all the facts and the real truth of the past events and spread the blame around is something that was long overdue.I want to personally thank you for that. Take care Ken, Its always been a pleasure working with you,playing with you, and against you. " Its All Good " Joep
Ken you are the voice of reason - for sure - I would think we can disagree and still not make every disagreement a personal matter - after all - the goal should not be 'everyone agree with me' it should be 'we all learn from each other and play better bj as a result' - I do want to say one thing though - as one poster has been charged with doing something he did not do - I was present at the conversation between Barney and Elyssez - where Elyssez said Barney questioned Joe's sexuallity - I have no memory of Barney either asking Elyssez about Joe's sexual orientation - nor of Barney stating that he thought Joe was gay - Barney was talking about a man who was observing the table and was 'breathing in his ear' and bumping up against him - and as a result was making it hard for him to concentrate on the game - Elyssez said it sounded like Joe and that he probably wasn't aware his behavior was disturbing anyone - Barney then proceeded to make some joking statements about Joe bumping against him - and Elyssez responded by stating 'he's not gay' - I did not interpret Barney's remarks as necessarily implying anything about Joe's sexual orientation - Elyssez obviously did - my memory is that Barny said - after Elyssez' comment - that he was not implying anything about Joe's sexual orientation - but - whatever has been said about what Barney did or did not say - Barney never made any direct comment nor asked any direct question about Joe's sexuallity during that conversation - if one wanted to interpret his joking comments as implying something about Joe's sexually - that was the interpretation of the listener - given the nature of the comments - about Joe bumping him repeatedly - I can understand how someone might interpret them as implying something about Joe - but I did not perceive them that way - and Barney said he did not intend them that way - I haven't wanted to jump into this - as I felt it was better to let something die off then to feed the flames - but when even you are saying 'Barney questioned Joe's sexuallity' - then I think that a simple statement of what actually occurred is warranted - and that is that Barney never asked about nor made any comment on Joe's sexual orientation - Elyssez interpreted some remarks made by Barney as having implications about Joe's sexuallity - even though Barney said he didn't mean them that way - and evidently passed on her interpretation of Barney's remarks to Joe - I hope this helps settle some of the personal issues - not further inflame them - but either way - Barney is being unfairly charged with comments he did not make - and that needs to be straightened out - I am sure Elyssez was simply honestly passing on to her friend Joe her reaction to/interpretation of Barney's comments - but that was her interpretation of what Barney meant, not what was actually said by Barney
God bless you Ken for doing that whole recap thingy. I actually believe it will help, but the thought of you sitting there at your computer like Papa Bear writing all that down had me laughing my ass off. I know how frustrated you must be right now & I hope it'll help get things back on track here... As for me, just been crazy busy out of town every weekend, playing online everyday @ Bet21, and to be quite honest -- while i still check in here on a regular basis (usually several times a day), i've been just as turned off as you have been by all the craziness -- both personal attacks as well as the influx of useless posts that don't really seem to have a point. (Which only serves to dilute my own litany of useless/personally offensive posts , of course!) When i think back to this board's heyday & try to remember what gave it such appeal, i can't help but realize that it all came down to INFORMATION sharing. People reported on ideas, tournaments, results, questions, even gossip from the blackjack world that would be of professional interest to those of us in this community. it was a serious gathering place of thoughts and ideas, and while the humor & sometimes edgy quality of the posters sometimes flared up, it was usually the exception to the rule. bottom line is, the tone here was very pragmatic and the sense of community we had was formed around a common love of tournament blackjack, not just 'funny posts' or worse, soap opera-y flame fests. i think any public forum goes through these type of growing pains, as more members join up and express their own identities, changing the shape and intent of the forum. Back then, the pros pretty much outnumbered those just learning; now, due to the incredible size (& success) of this board, the newbies naturally are in the vast majority. Hence less concentration on the active pursuit of new thoughts and ideas in the community, and more rehashing of the ideas that got us here. To be quite honest, i am far more likely to respond to a post or thread on a new thought or idea in TBJ than i am to play a tourney teaser or a question about what correlations mean. (Not saying those particular lines of thought aren't entirely valid or necessary to a board like this, just that when they are the primary sources of intellectualism to be found here, rather than just a side component, it certainly lowers the bar for all of us). I would love to see a return to more professional discussion. Even if the ideas are peppered with the original, vibrant personalities that make us all so unique, we simply must see a return to much more relevant main thoughts and ideas. Some of this responsibility should lie on the pros, who could take time to post new thoughts and ideas for discussion -- which may not, of course, be so feasible considering the current state of affairs here. Some random ideas that may help in this endeavor to return to the heart of our quest to be the best source of tourney blackjack ideas on the web: -awards for post of the month. -restricted forums that all would be able to read, but posting privileges could be limited to players who make their living playing (which would hopefully generate more popular side threads for the general membership) -ask certain memebers of the professional playing community to post a monthly article apiece (which would mean we'd see a couple every week, if you could get even 8-10 players to post one monthly threadstarter) detailing any original specific concept they adhere to in their playing strategy, which of course would lead to all sorts of healthy debate on the validity of those newer systems/ideas. -a much more aggressive no-tolerance policy for flame wars. this isn't a democracy, after all -- its your kingdom. make people agree to a list of posting guidelines when they register an account, post a sticky on the announcements page, and you will have carte blanche to bust away. (any major forum such as twoplustwo.com or even bj21.com has moderated discussion boards for just this reason). sure, many will cry censorship but once again, this is your board & i think everyone agrees you are more than fair in your decision making. Wong throws off anyone on his site that doesn't agree with him, i don't think anyone here believes you to even be capable of that kind of censorship. i'm sure there are plenty more, but that's all i got for now. i'm excited to get this ball rolling, and eager to hear what decisions you'd like to make/put in place to help ensure this board continues to prosper and grow in the manner you originally intended it.... Thanks again for providing a home for this type of community to flourish. We couldn't do it without you. -hd.
It's always the same for me. Be it TBJ, "Dress as a Pirate" competition in year 3 Primary School (damn you Peter Woodings!), 100 Meters Sprint, Domino Toppling, Yard of Ale, I'm always the best man, never the groom! Only #4th highest poster here!! What's going on for X sake? What do I have to do to get "in the money"? Recently I have been going back of the earliest posts in the archive and it's amazing how different people were with each other. It's like the first day at a new school, full of wonder and mutual respect and support. I haven't seen a pleasant post between joep or txtourplayer for months but back in the day it was like they were bessie mates. I'd really like it if those two would just shake hands and make up. Maybe even a hug, shed a tear or two, remember the good times fondly, and wander full of joy arm in arm down the road to the nearest bar and share a few beers. The first round is on me... <<the sound of noman's ears pricking>> My one constructively critical comment: More strategy from the big boys please. When I first came on this site there were loads of tourney teasers and any neophyte like myself who posted a question, no matter how stupid (or clever) it was would elicit many responses from the experienced players. That has significantly dropped off. The recent thread, "The worst bet in the history of ...", started by yours truely I hasten to add , reminded me of "the good old days" with input from people I want to hear from: it was fantastic stuff! However in the recent past I have found myself responding to strategy questions posted by other newbies, hoping that I would be followed by some of the "big dogs" who would confim or critique my answers, and quite often that's not happened. Maybe my advice was good !! There are some poor souls going around using strategy tips from me!!!!! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the help, advice and support from all of you here, but we don need to get back to the level of a few months ago. Love you all. In a completely non-sexual way you understand... Cheers Reachy For those who don't know what a yard of ale is....
Nice posts all around Funny you should choose those words. As I read Ken's recap the theme music to 'Soap' came, unbidden into my head - "In last week's episode ...." Regarding the structure of the forum, I know it's a bit of a cliche, but maybe a FAQ would be a useful addition as a first port of call for new members. Question #1 "How do I learn?" would point to the strategy articles, list the book(s), etc. Question #2 "Where can I play?" would list the online sites, talk about the US legal situation, point to the schedule for land-based games. For additional questions, snippets from existing threads could perhaps be pasted into this sticky FAQ, to prevent the same topics from coming up repeatedly.
Since some are under the impression that I always get things wrong, you're completely entitled to your own opinion of what I said, how I said it, and who I said it to. We songbirds don't care.
If the statements attributed to Barney were never made, please accept my apologies. My recap of the events wasn't intended to be taken as accurate, because I don't have the time or will to go back and reconstruct the truth. That's exactly the problem. These things get argued out so much that noone knows the truth anymore. However, I expect smoother sailing ahead. There are some great ideas posted in this thread now, and I look forward to implementing some of them. Give me a couple of days and I'll make some progress. Meanwhile, anyone who wants to bite off a project, such as London Colin's questions one and two, have a start on it, and we can all help polish up the result. Hopefully the experienced players will take a more active role in answering questions after things settle down. I know I'll keep trying to be a useful contributor. In recent weeks that has been difficult for me because I've been busy reworking the ad software for my sites, and preparing to diversify out of the gaming area. I've heard some people saying that the experienced players aren't answering question because they don't want to share their "trade secrets". I think that's very rarely the case. I know that I've always been willing to share almost everything I know about this game. I've held back a few items merely because I don't want my eventual book to just be a rehash of my posts. But it is truly rare for me to answer a question and choose to not completely cover my thoughts on it, and I think the same can be said of almost everyone who contributes here. Some of the experienced players haven't been around to answer questions because they felt like they were attacked every time they posted, and I'm sure the climate has dissuaded some other qualified lurkers who stay out of the fray. Calmer waters will bring out the best in everyone, and hopefully some of the members who have chosen to leave over the last couple of years will come back. Having said all that, please realize that answering strategy questions accurately often requires a big time commitment. Some questions will just slip between the cracks because it happens to be an inconvenient time to commit half an hour to a good answer. When that happens, the question tends to either just stay unanswered, or have a few half-hearted responses instead of a good answer. I'll ask some of our very experienced lurkers to step up to the plate sometimes, and help out in that respect. I promise, if you're attacked, I've got your back. If I delete a post that is borderline, so be it. This community deserves a helpful and friendly place to converse.
bjt my only reason to be on this site is to ask questions to better my game and to know where all the tournyments are - i will not lower myself to behavior that is not condusive to this site and the people that have respect and intergrity to make this the best site for us the players(and this is the BEST SITE around) bar none I APOLIGISE FOR MY POST YET THIS SEEMS TO BE THE TIME TO PUT IN MY 2CENTS WORTH MAXWELL
Just want to say that I think that Hollywood's post is right on the money in all respects. Great ideas, great future perspective, and great and appropriate thanks to Ken for this resource... Ditto! My addition: See the BIG PICTURE and realize that it is still a very good time for Tournament Blackjack. Let's embrace and develop the opportunities.
