Why You Should Not Boycott Bet 21

Here is a real good reason not to Boycott Bet 21.com

Last night like most nights they offer tournaments that pay back more that they receive in entry fee.This type of payouts are called "Overlays" and they should be played whenever possible by all players it increases you EV above and beyond what you already have for being a skilled player.

In last nights 10:15 PM Pacific Time 1,000 Guarantee tournament there were 14 players who payed a $50 +$5 entry fee. Bet 21 collected $770 dollars yet payed out 1,000 creating a $230 overlay.That was worth $16.42 per player or equivalent to a 29.8% per player discount on the entry fee.I was lucky enough to make the Final table and finish 3rd for $200.

I feel the need to inform players of this current trend and situation by also thank some of the players for not showing up and creating these overlays that we have at our disposal.These opportunity will become fewer and less often once the players start to really see its value.Don't miss the boat.


Joep

 

Congratulations on playing in the positive overlay situation Joe. You are right it IS good for those to whom those types of games ARE available. But lets look closer shall we?

That game cost Bet21.com 230.00 more than they paid out. If a company continues to do that won't they eventually NOT be able to pay their bills?

While it was my decision to personally boycott Bet21.com - until I got this pending deposit bonus situation resolved, the dealings and answers that I am getting from they are very perplexing and frustrating - Especially the downright lying.

Therefore based upon my dealings with Bet21.com I can only concluded that positive EV games, such as you described, is why Bet21.com has no money to pay its most frequent customers, ME, the promised deposit bonuses.

Conclusively I feel the need to warn others of the impending disaster that I feel is looming on the horizone - namely the BANKRUPTCY OF BET21.COM. I would urge all readers to carefully consider what Joep has stated about positive EV games and realize that any money they keep with Bet21.com IS AT RISK

 

I'm not boycotting Bet.21 for that reason and others : it is the best and only game of TBJ worth playing online, the best software, the biggest pool of players (however small), a sense of growth (however slow) with new players showing up all the time in the low level SnG's, the easy withdrawal and funding options left to people outside U.S,etc.

Fred brought a good point though, Joe : how long can they go on giving money away in these great overlay tournaments (the main fact why I play less and less of them is the time zone (EST). The best games are now too late for me. I remember falling aspleep twice on my laptop in finals:laugh: )

Yesterday, I did withdraw 90 percent of my money because of the fear ot them going belly up anytime soon. Too bad.

I also took all my money out of Get21 where they tried to charge more for their best tournaments while increasing the number of entries required (OK with me, I was ready to go). Now they have zero entries for these tournaments. The only games left are the freerolls, the $5 give aways, a MonteCarlo Tournament that hardly pays 50% airfare for two from North America. For these events that I won't play, they always get a crowd. The only games of any interest I can find there for me are Quick games (3 to 5 hands) for 2$. Anything higher, you hardly find anybody.

Sad, so sad. Such good games. :sad: Could it be the freebies and freerolls are ruining the game

 

Tell me why?

Ok folks help me out here because I seem to be slightly confused.

I’ve been re-reading past posts and came across a particular enlightening thread entitled, Las Vegas Hilton $100000 tournament. It was a discussion about the “free” suited BJ tournament in which players had to pay $100 for a mulligan.

At the time I didn’t understand the problem with it but apparently other members of this forum had a problem with how the Hilton handled the issue, for example:

highlights were done by me for emphasis

http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1769&page=5&highlight=hilton+mulligan

Hmmmm how is that different than Bet21.com advertising 100% deposit bonus, having up how to redeem the pending deposit bonus and when asked about it claiming, “oh it’s outdated?”

Joep you were upset that the Hilton made an extra 100,000 (possibly from the mulligan) nevertheless Bet21.com has KEPT much more than 100,000 in deposit bonuses. (To use your example how about 1,000 players at $200 bonus money = 200,000!

With the Hilton incident Joep mentioned that the State Attorney General might not like what occurred what do you think Senator Frist would think about what Bet21.com is doing? Hmmmm? Maybe this could be the poster child about WHY online gaming needs to be regulated?

Need additional proof? Lets look at the customer service response from Adriana,

So if they don’t have the software that has the option when, pray tell me, when were they planning on honoring the deposit bonus promise and HOW?

Joep I ask you to please explain the difference between the mulligan at the Hilton and the refusal of Bet21.com to pay the deposit bonuses?

Also explain to me why I shouldn’t take this evidence to the government officials?

 

If Bet21.com lies about the deposit bonuses what else are they lying about? Rando brought up the point about manipulating the dealers cards to make the games go quicker and increase the rake.

I originally thought, “no way, no reputable site would do that”. But can Bet21.com be considered a reputable site NOW?

You ask me why I’m boycotting them? How am I not to believe they have me fingered and will deal me bust cards every time? Unlike a casino where things are regulated how can I be sure that the cards really are random? Read All In magazine? Read James Grosjeans column in the February edition about stacking the cards so the house wins – cool article. Is Bet21.com doing that?

See how all these questions come up because they (Bet21.com) aren’t being honest about one thing I have to assume they aren’t being honest about ALL things.

What gets me is how you Joe, a man who publicly states his reputation is everything to him, stands by a company that has lied to you in the past and continues to lie to you. What is more important the positive EV or your reputation?

Money comes and goes (and in my case with TBJ is goes and goes :joker: ) but I’ve only got one reputation. Now some may consider me a trouble maker but I only want one thing from Bet21.com – THE TRUTH AND HOW THEY PLAN TO RESOLVE IT!

I told you get them on the radio for public disclosure. Your response is they don’t live in the US due to UIGAE. Fine, don’t they have phones where they’re living? The last time I looked I didn’t think it was possible to arrest someone “over the phone”.

Come on man, stand up for what is right! You discussed about how great our country is. Freedom doesn’t come cheap – maybe it can be bought for positive EV though!

 

'Sup?

What's going on with this "boycot bet21.com" campaign? Where are you going to get your EBJ fix FGK? Has anybody other than you stopped playing? I agree that it's wrong to promise something and then not deliver and I do agree that UB are managing this whole issue all wrong. One question: would you have not signed up to Bet21 if they hadn't offered the bonus money or free book?

I must admit I do miss the early days at Global Player, great chat room, friendly people, helpful people, good games, almost a more innnocent time....(sigh)

Cheers

Reachy

PS. FGK; just checked out your blog, you're serious about this aren't you?

 

LONG ISLAND SOUND(For bet21)

I might be wrong(usually).

You may be right. I may be crazy. You may be wrong....But, you may be right.

Lesser, experienced sites gave away too much or too loose bonuses. Quickly, those in the know, here, and elsewhere, alerted players to that fact.

Right now, Bet21/UBT is the only online site for US players. Options? Play or don't play on line.

If you deposited $100 with a 20 per cent bonus that wouldn't pay your gas to a brick and mortar. If you got a 100 per cent first time or reload bonus, it might cover your gas and room. All to play a 6-5 game or 40 percent penetration, or no double after split, or yadda, yadda and any number of unfavorable live B&M games, with promised point comps which never pan out, or amount to a souvenier one inch by one inch by one inch replica slot machine.(Okay a cubic inch replica slot machine.) But, the handle actually works and the wheel kinda spins.

BJ players try to play with an edge, otherwise try your luck at WAR.( I know some folks who did quite well, even had the floor looking at them.) The edge.The advantage at either a "regular" table game or in a tournament, hey? OR WHERE THERE IS AN OVERLAY. And sorry to say, overlays, are about the only advantage left.

If, you got in enough overlay tourneys at Bet21/UBT, you more than covered your lost promised bonus.

Two additional benefits:

ONE: The overlays are there, because not enough players play. If you're decent enough you just increased your odds of winning some money. Play against !,000 or 16 for the same top money. Hmmm. I guess I'll punt.

TWO:The players playing in the overlays recognize the advantage, because they are good. So, you may gauge your luck or skill against good players.

To me, that's three benefits to one flaw. Or three to one odds if you will. Will they work out the confusion. I dunno. But in some cases, ney, most and this one, the overlays more than compensate for the "limbo" bonuses. Unless you deposited a grand at a hundred per cent. Hmmm. That too would be revealing. Going that deep on, at the time, an unknown quantity, without expert comment.

FAIR GAME? I dare say, the folks I've seen playing wouldn't be playing if it weren't a fair game. Most of them would be the first to alert others to an anomoly, or skew.

K41 and one half: I have a modest proposal for you. If you really want your bonus money: (I admit. I want mine, but, I'm not penny wise and pound foolish all the time.)

Sit down in a .05/,10 poker game of your choice, on THE site,( you know, just click the tab to take you there) After 10 hands you'll get a dime of your bonus money back. Now, you will have to play and win a hand somewhere along the way, or the antes and or blinds will overcome you. But, even luck says you'll win a hand one in 10. (And grinding back your bonus, is no different than griding at BJ.) By Gee willakers you might even win big.

Decreased numbers on the site have more to do with getting money in and out sereptitiously, than disgruntled players. There are still ways. Payouts are verified by reputable players.

So play on line at bet21./UBT or don't. The choice and attitude are certainly yours. Or, in your case donate to the Indians, or take an equivalent amount of owed bonus money to fly to Vegas, or AC, or Tunica, or Aruba again. But good luck finding a favorable, non tournament game. Or evaluating a live tournaments value.

By the by, as I said, I'm sittin on a modest bonus amount, BUT, the real idea of BET 21/UBT was not to play the bonus "game", BUT TO PLAY!

So, you may be wrong. You may be right. I may be a lunatic. But......

 

That's what I thought too at the beginning, last October, when I saw all the freebies and freerolls, but at what rate are the new players crossing over to the real money games? Does Bet21have a way of tracking them to analyze its growth potential? Is it worth it, now after six or eight months of trials? What would happen if they completely stop the freerolls tomorrow? Maybe then, we would see a big increase of players crossing over? These are businessmen who know the market, designed with care and developed seriously a great software, tested it appropriately with the help of knowledgeable people like you, brought their game on TV in a show that got great ratings (dixit A. Curtis). Apart from the unexpected enacting of the law, how long did they think it would take to get this boat safely across the pond. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that they are there for the long term. But how long is the long term? A year, two years? You seem to have full confidence in these people? Still a business has to show positives. What are the positives for Bet21 owners at this point in time, in your mind?

 

Norm...

I dont think Fred is worried about the bonus dollars per se....rather that a business made a promise then reniged on that promise and further treated one of thier best customers (in fact all customers) like crap by refusing to deal in an open and honest manner.

They may offer the only game in town....and its a good game and we hope it expands by exponents...but....

An explaination, a new deal, anything ...any effort would go a long way to assuage this situation...but the fact remains the company chooses to do NOTHING!

This speaks volumes about the business principles the owners are operating under.

What happens when you apply for a withdrawl and they decide to treat that request with the same concern as the deposit bonus promise?

I would like to think that that would never happen .....that would be being fooled twice right?

And what did Geoge W say????Fool me once and you fooled me ...Fool me twice and Im fooled again???;-)

I am at the point where I may have to say shame on me...I dont like to be at that place...

For me ...my deposit is small amount....but every day it grows bigger on principle....but I can get over anything...

Bothers me that they (UB) still offer a reload bonus but they still dont recognize my game...except when it comes time for them to collect the rake from my game! That they fully recognize!

Practically...yes.....my bonus wouldnt cover gas for two trips to my local IC....but then again my local Indian Casino just sent a free room and meal for 1 day a week from now until the end of May....this is called a comp....any honest and fairly decent casino treats the best customers with respect and they offer incentives to keep said good customer happy.,,

I really hope the site sees fit to settle the matter...

Geesh...a smart owner would at least pay off the big mouths.;-)

LOL

 

Rando:

Point taken on integrity. I do happen to agree with that. Perhaps lost in some of my verbage was the fact that yes indeed B&M's offer comps and sometimes come through. But, sometimes not. I have volumes of stories of offered comps by B&M's that mysteriously were either taken away, or miraclously disappeared when I attempted to use them.

There are a small percentage of knowledgeable comp "users", some with books. And it amazes me they can still get the same level of accomodation after revealing their secrets.

Otherwise the occassional visitor receives the tasty buffett or a room for a night or two, for the opportunity to play "bad" games.

If the trade off is no comps for somewhat of an advantage play, including an overlay, I opt for the overlay and phfutt with the garment bag and buffett.

Principle yes. But if one really held to their principles they wouldn't be buying into the "It's Entertainment," theme bandied about by the Gaming Industry.

I don't need a luxory suite or a 150 percent marked up meal.

Give me a well hidden row of bushes and a hot dog in exchange for a beatable game. As I posted earlier, to me the odds are 3-1 in your, mine, our favour, to play Bet/21/UBT.

Good Fortune to You and All

 

100% Sign Up Bonus - Up to $350

For a limited time only, we’re giving all new first time depositors a 100% Deposit Bonus for Poker.

NOTE: Blackjack Bonus Dollars are coming soon!

On the site they do say that the Blackjack Bonus Dollars are coming soon,but no one seems to report that.Most posters here just say there is no response to their questions.I believe that this banner is good enough proof that they will make this right.


Joep

 

Confused

Joep,

Since YOU were first to point out Bet21.com's new banner then maybe you can explain this banner on Kenny E's site?

So who's right and who's not

 

When?

Joep,

Maybe you can find someone over at Bet21.com to explain the fine print details.

For example they advertise Bet21.com as

The Place for Elimination Blackjack

But their deposit bonus is only for POKER

They say Blackjack Bonus Dollars are coming soon!

When is soon and will it apply to people who deposit NOW?

Later it says, "Convert Bonus Dollars by playing in sit 'n gos and tournaments.

Isn't that what MOST of us here have been doing? Nevertheless I haven't had any of MY Bonus Dollars converted!

But lets get back to YOUR post Joep: How do YOU define Soon?

soon Show phonetics
adverb
in or within a short time; before long; quickly:
She'll soon be here./She'll be here soon.
It will soon be impossible for foreigners to enter the country.
The sooner we leave, the sooner we'll get there.
Soon after agreeing to go, she realized she'd made a mistake.
How soon (= When) can we sign the contract?
"When would you like to meet?" "The sooner the better."
I couldn't get out of that place soon enough.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

OR

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
soon /sun/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soon] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adverb, -er, -est. 1. within a short period after this or that time, event, etc.: We shall know soon after he calls.
2. before long; in the near future; at an early date: Let's leave soon.
3. promptly or quickly: He came as soon as he could.
4. readily or willingly: I would as soon walk as ride.
5. early in a period of time; before the time specified is much advanced: soon at night; soon in the evening.
6. Obsolete. immediately; at once; forthwith.
—Idioms7. sooner or later, eventually: Sooner or later his luck will run out.
8. would sooner, to prefer to: I would sooner not go to their party. Compare rather (def. 8).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE sōna; c. OHG sān, Goth suns]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

So when EXACTLY could a person expect that to occur?

It seems I was told something similar to that in November 2006 and again in January 2007.

Fool me once - shame on you

Fool me twice .....

 

A banner with no date, no inception time and no expiration date is good enough for you?

Hey then I've got some great property here in Florida. Heavily wooded, water view, pristine and untouched. Great for people who just want to get away!

Wanna buy it.

Oh and you can build whatever you want on it.

I'm getting the building permits soon.:laugh:

 

Since this is gonna happen SOON.

I would encourage ALL First time depositors to WAIT until the Blackjack Bonus Dollars are available. DON'T RUSH IT.

If you haven't opened a Bet21.com account why hurry? Wait until they get it right.

 

define

""How do YOU define Soon? ""

One of the most famous quotes fits this scenario

Depends on What the Definition of Is Is

-Bill Clinton

:laugh:

 

I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence, but come on Joe! You've got to be kidding. Do you think anyone takes you seriously? What's clear is that bet21 isn't living up to its promises. Why they aren't is subject to interpretation, but until they do, how can you come here and attempt to con people any more than they've already been conned? What's that saying, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me? I'm glad I haven't been fooled even once, but you're really pushing it by telling people to support a business that everyone can agree hasn't lived up to its promises. Unless you have some other motive, of course.

 

How Soon is Soon?

Hmm maybe I was too harsh on Joep. I mean after all there are many, many famous quotes that people have made concerning soon. For example,

Then who can forget what the 19th century successful playwright, Oscar Wilde said:

I guess if Bet21.com paid their deposit bonuses this would be forgotten :laugh:

Not to be outdone, the wise man, Gandhi said:

Unfortunately there are too many places where the cobwebs haven’t been dusted.

With respect to getting a solid answer from Bet21.com customer service department Mr. Franklin had it right when he said,

But the best quote that I found as it relates to the whole Bet21.com situation comes from

 

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

—President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

I just hope that isn't my fate at the next UBT event :joker: