There is this one deck blackjack game at a casino. Limit is 5 - 250. The rules are as followed: dealer hit soft 17, double on any 2 cards, resplit aces allowed and surrender anytime allowed. The drawback is that blackjack is paid 1:1. Penetration is 60 to 70%. I kinda like the anytime surrender because without it I wouldn't consider this game since BJ is paid 1:1. My question is if I play correct basic strategy and count card using hi-low with perfect precision, would I have an advantage at this game in a long run? I've been playing this game for a 4 or 5 times (don't remember exactly) and made a couple to a few hundred bucks everytime.
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Don't take offence... ...it's not directed at you Darklord! He's making fun of Hollywood Dave (I think). As you can see lots of people on the forum have discovered a new website that lets you make short cartoon films; fgk42 is just getting carried away with it, can't even have a normal conversation with him now! I suggest you visit www.wizardofodds.com for more specific info about casiono edge in this scenario. I suspect that it is still in favour of the house because of the BJ being 1:1. My (limited) understanding is that this is where a lot of the casino edge can be trimmed down so without it you're in trouble. But don't take my word for it. Cheers Reachy
Here is a "quick answer" to your question: I actually do have the advantages that the casino has for different game variations. They are in my reference library and I will post the actual answer to your question. I apologize for trying to lighten the mood. The sarcasm was not intended toward you and I do not have any products to sell. Your point is well taken. I am sorry that you have no sense of humor and take things so personal that you stoop to name calling and insults. Please accept my sincere apologies.
According to Snyder ... In terms of basic strategy you are about 2.5% worse off than normal Vegas Strip rules, before you take account of the 'surrender anytime' rule. Does that include early surrender? (that would get 0.7% back straight away) AIUI varying strategy with the count (rather than just varying your bets) is much more important in single-deck than in multi-deck games. I would expect that to be even more true in this case. If it is beatable, a lot of the benefit will presumably arise from surrendering whenever the count dictates it. Like Reachy, my understanding is limited, but my gut instinct is that you probably won't get back what you've lost from the 1:1 BJ.
Here's the answer to your question, courtesy of A. Snyder: Dealer hit soft 17 lose 0.19 Double on any 2 cards (assuming after splitting here) gain 0.14 Resplit Aces gain 0.03 Late surrender gain 0.03 Blackjack pays 1:1 lose 2.32 Total loss = 2.45 This was based on "Theory of BJ" by Peter Griffins Hope this helps and good luck to you.
Darklord, that question is more appropriate for the sister site forum....here... http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/
Just say NO darklord, I agree with swog that you can probably get a fuller discussion of this type of situation on Ken's sister site. But since you asked here: As far as my reading, it’s 100% agreement among the experts to avoid BJ games that only pay 6:5 on a BJ. I can only conclude that playing a game with a 1:1 payout on a BJ is courting disaster. The addition of other player friendly rules and perfect card counting can’t nearly make up for the reduced BJ payout. I found a handy “calculator” that you may be interested in at www.wizardofodds.com . By just clicking on the various rules of a given BJ game, you get an instant answer to the question of house advantage. Most, but not all (BJ paying 1:1 is not covered because I suspect it’s so rare), scenarios are covered. It’s a handy tool (I like tools ) for a quick answer. To access the calculator: 1)Log onto www.wizardofodds.com 2)On the home page there is a pull down menu “Game Info & Strategies”. Click on that. 3)Then click on “Blackjack” 4)Next, scroll down to “House Edge” (in large bold letters – can’t miss it) 5)Then click on “Blackjack House Edge calculator”. 6)Enter the rules to get the house edge. You will then see what a huge difference a 6:5 game makes. To summarize, just say no to 6:5 or 1:1 games. If enough players boycott these games they will disappear. Unfortunately, most players out there do not investigate house edge, so these games will continue and the uninformed will lose their ass over the long hull.
I thought the point of the question was to ask whether the ability to surrender whenever you like compensates for the 1:1 BJ? (Hence my query about whether 'anytime' inlcudes before the dealer checks for a BJ.) So does anybody know how much this rule is worth? (with or without the early part) Is it a common rule in combination with the hated 1:1 / 6:5 BJ? As I said, I'd expect that even if early surrender is part of the package you still will be worse off, but that's really just an assumption on my part.
"anytime" surrender Being able to surrender doesn't even come close to compensating for the "1:1" rule. Late surrender only reduces the house edge by about 0.03%. Early surrender is a lot better - depending on other house rules, the house edge can be reduced by as much as 0.4% - this is why you never see it anymore in casinos. Surrender "anytime" - who knows. Never heard of it before and never seen any info published on the subject. But I really doubt that surrender "anytime" can come anywhere close to compensating for the incredibly bad rule of "1:1". Your last question, "Is it a common rule in combination with the hated 1:1 / 6:5 BJ?", the answer is: depends on the casino. From my observation (I would not consider playing with these rules), a lot of casinos will allow a late surrender in a 6:5 game. With giving up only 0.03%, it's a cheap way of inducing the unsuspecting to play. Early surrender is virtually a thing of the past. One more note, offering late surrender is actually profitable for the casinos. The vast majority, and I do mean vast, have no clue as to when to surrender. They end up surrendering when they shouldn't which results in the house having a greater, not less, advantage. But casinos don't understand this and if you ask a dealer if surrender is allowed they say "oh no, not here".
Indeed. I was asking specifically about the 'anytime' version. I quite understand that there is no way you would want to go near a 1:1 or 6:5 game unless there were some other wacky rule(s) in place to claw back most of the lost advantage. News Flash: I just found the following in chapter 8 of 'The Theory of Blackjack' - According to the book that would be- Late: 2 x 0.036 = 0.07% Early: (1.1 x .51) + (1.5 x 0.19) = 0.85% Which is interesting, and makes sense. Presumably you get proportionally less benefit in combination with early surrender because you will surrender many more of your initial 2-card hands in any case. So, even if early surrender is allowed, that leaves us a long way short of the 2.5% we were looking for. I was also wondering about the distinction between the effect on the Basic Strategy expectation and the effect on the counter's expectation. I'd have thought a counter would be able to make many more beneficial surrender decisions than a non-counter.
SuperFun 21? Darklord, Any other unique rules? Arnold Snyder wrote in his "The Big Book of Blackjack" a way to beat this game if you can get away with a large spread and a simple Red7 count. I'll have to check it but this game sounds a lot like I remember of what he wrote. Interesting post but should be in different forum/thread. Pill
