WSOB IV: Episode 3

Don't leave early...

Tonights show I got to see live, WOW! I'm sure there will be a few players posting after this show.

At the end you may hear some loud OOOOOooooooo's in the back ground, that was coming from us in the green room, (unless they mute us out). It was one of the biggest surprizes to me.

 

Wow!!!

I think Norm was the most surprised person in the place when Joe allowed him the chance to advance...LOL

When Joe surrendered the hand before (with 3 hands left) I thought for sure he was going to force Norm to beat him. We were all in shock when Joe DD on the next to the last hand.

Besides giving away an almost certain 2nd place, $5,000 and advancing to the playoff round, Joe gave life to one of the better tournament players around.

The other bet that I was sick about was Alice's after the first knockout card had come out. Her $15,000 bet left her open to be knockout by Hollywood. But she ended up catching some great cards.

Alice and her mom were both real sweet, I talked to Alice before her first round and she told me she wasn't use to tournament blackjack. Her strategy was to bet big and hope she got lucky and it worked.

I guess the old saying came true, when in doubt, put it out...LOL

I didn't realize that Alice had just won a $1,000,000 last year for the National 3-card poker tournament until after she won her first round.

But since she is a good old Texas girl, I was happy for her...LOL

I'm up next week; I hope I don't embarrass myself too much. I'll get to see all the plays I made and probably be ripping myself worst then anybody.

 

I agreed with you until I saw Episode 3. Now I have to nominate Joe Fisher for that award with his all-in DD with only 2 hands to go.

For those overseas who don't get WSOB here's the scenario one hand B4: 3 hands to play

BR1 - Alice on the button with 100,000
BRL - Norm next to bet with 28,250
BR2 - Joe last to bet with 90,000

Alice bets 25K gets 16
Norm bets 28K gets 14
Joe bets 25K get 13

Dealer has a Q

Alice draws to 20
Norm (getting up to leave) draws to 17
Joe surrenders

Dealer turns a 3, 2 (great cutaway here Kevin very suspenful) 8 and busts

Now 2 hands to go

Norm bets first BRL 56,250 bets 50,000
Joe second BR2 77,500 bets 39,000
Alice BR1 third with 125,000 bets 30,000

Cards:
Norm 15
Joe 13
Alice 18
Dealer 4

Then Joe does the "unthinkable" He DD on his hard 13. When I saw him DD at first I didn't realize that he had the BK power chip. When he threw the Power Chip out then I thought, "Ah ha, brilliant plan!" However as a Tuesday morning quarterback I realize, now, that the risk that he was making just didn't justify the actions. Joe doubled down for the full amount - he was all in. He stayed with the card.

The dearler turned a Queen. When you see the 14 you've gotta be thinking the dealers gonna bust and Joe's gonna look like a genius. However the next card is a 5 for 19. Alice loses, Norm loses then it's over to Joe. With excruting agony the dealer turns over his DD card which is a 5 for a total of 18! Joe busts OUT in 3rd place with $3,000 and it's back to Michigan.

Norm gets 2nd place, $5,000 and another shot in the wild card match while Alice takes a cool $25,000 and goes to the semi's.

When the dealer hits 19 the look on Joes face telegraphs that his DD card isn't a 6, 7 or 8. At that point, the more surprising moment, at least to me, is that Norm didn't fall off his chair what that gift wrapped present of going to the wild card match that was laid in his lap!

I understand Joe's desire to win but with your tournament life on the line and one more hand to go AND Joe would be betting last. I think in that case if he felt the need to DD and use the BK chip a more appropriate DD would have been for $30,000 - just in case. That would have STILL left him with a 8,500 BR if the table loses, which it did, or he would have had a 146,500 BR if the dealer busts.

Either way this move by Joe, in my mind, only demonstrates how wise a player Kami Liss and Jeff Swenson, episode 2 players are. Sure we as a home audience would have loved to see Kami go for the win last week but as Joe demonstrated this week that are lots of chances when doing so.

 

Alice and Hollywood Dave

I have to say you all that I am very proud of Alice. She is an African-American woman and as I am an African-American male. To see a woman, at that, being of color is lovely to me especially. When I heard in the beginning that she was a three-card-poker champion and claiming a $1,000,000 prize is a wonderful accomplishment. Yes.....

On the playing. I was so happy to see Hollywood Dave leave early and I predicted it as well. That's not to say he was getting bad hands after bad hands. I just don't like his antics and attitude. I'll tell you guys who I play like: Alice. I make really conservative bets. Guess what? She won convincingly. When I'm on UBTclub.com I win a great deal because I don't go all in on the first hand. My goodness people, you have seven hands before you get to the eighth. I tell people all the time that when playing blackjack tournaments it's about chip management and hand-watching. How much does your opponent have? Who is in first, second, or third base? Of course, Alice was in third base in this instance.

Back to Dave. I'm not one to bash him, but I just don't like his on-the-screen tirades. Just shut-up and play please. If you're so good, then just put your money where your mouth is. Obviously, it didn't work for him and I'm happy it didn't work. My point is you all I'm just tired of him. Lets get a fresh face in this sport and Alice brings a great deal to it. I even have some mannerism as she does because I'm from the South.

Lastly, I don't see how Norm lasted so long with those last minute hands and gaining $50,000 on one. Where did that come from? Well, for the comment above you all. I'm not playing the race-card. However, when I do see an African-American achieving something other than going to prison, homeless, or being ridiculed in the media, it gives me great joy......Peace......

 

If

I told you what my wife said about HD I she would get a for sure 3 day vacation:laugh:

As for the doubling for less mistake at end. I think its an easy mistake and much more forgivable than surrendering into a KO. I have been thinking about this very play of recent trying to pound it into my head to be alert for it. I cant say for sure I wouldnt have made the same mistake.

Matt Vasgersian is such a big improvement this year. What a Grinder he is, this past weekend I watch a Heads Up Poker game on CNBC he called. Later that day I watched him call a Dodger game for Fox TV. Monday back on WSOB.

 

At the risk of being tarred and feathered here, I'm going to stick up for HD. Dave Stann understands something that some don't (and I'm not making reference to anyone in particular). Once you're on a TV TBJ show, you become an entertainer first, and a competitor second. If it ain't entertaining, people will change channels and that's the end of the show. Dave Stann plays a character called Hollywood Dave, who is loud, brash, and even a bit abusive. Love HD or hate him, he's good for the ratings, and that's what it's all about. Right, Mr. Belinkoff?

Of course, since I don't get GSN anymore, I'm speaking without benefit of seeing last night's episode...... :sad:

 

You guys are killing me, Smalls.

The two of you are coming at this from different angles, but are missing a pretty important aspect of this whole thing that really is the point of it all:

Talking to your opponents, depending upon who they are, can lead to a huge advantage. It's not just something for TV.

Dave runs his mouth at the table. There are a few other players that do the same, myself included, although usually at a much different level. Regardless, the power of manipulation is amazing and when you see someone make a bad bet as a result of banter, you really see how powerful of a tool it can be.

Be it psychology, misdirection or just distraction, the benefits of being able to play a strong game while altering someone else's are huge.

 

Lets Try to Set the Record Straight!

I would like to address two items from the above posts.

The first being Hollywood Dave. I have played many rounds with this guy over about a 3 year period. I know him to be a good kid until the cameras are rolling. When the cameras are rolling, just think about what he adds to a T.V. show. Who else would you rather see playing and losing? I like what he contributes to tournament blackjack, and I believe he has worked hard at his game, improving immensely over the past three years. Besides, he gave me his UBT badge at the Venetian. And No; I did NOT ask him to autograph it!

The second point concerns the 'mistake' of Joe Fraiser. Joe is really good guy, and he believed he made a terrible mistake, too. I don't think so. I think it was a close play. Let me explain.

When he made the half bet on the 2nd to the last hand, which turned out to be the last hand shown on T.V., I expected him to be looking for a double down, and that is why I did not "fall off my chair". You see, 2nd place is better than 3rd, but 2nd only gives you a one out of five chance to win in the wild card round. When going to the Wild Card round, anything less than first yields nothing! That is only a 20% chance to get to the semi's. Now Joe had a problem with his hand and his betting position and the fact that if Alice wins with her 18 hand, he will still be $500 behind her, betting first on the last hand. I did not know at that moment he would still be behind, but I did know it would be very close if he went all in and won. Maybe he thought he would be ahead of Alice, as the chip count was so close. If he wins and ends up ahead of her, he has a 56% chance to win the whole deal. Much better than the 20% for playing in a wild card round. Had I been in his position, and Alice had bet $1000 less, I would have doubled ALL IN with any 9, 10, or 11 hand in a heartbeat. Doubling 13 may have been a bit of stretch, and the fact that he would be still be $500 behind Alice unless he swung her was a problem, but under the pressure of the moment, I still call it a close play. No reward without risk, Joe. Nice try! Given the 13 double down, and the $500 deficit, I do favor a smaller double that could get him within less than half a bet behind Alice, but then he would still probably be facing an all in decision on the last hand, and I might be there with $56,250 of bankroll.

As a last thought, I would like to say to Alice, that if her $30,000 bet was not just an wild guess, it was a GREAT wager. Nice going to all.

Norm

 

Sorry

Just have to say I'm done with this topic and I stand by my judgement. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't care how he is off camera and don't care how he is on camera. Everyone is different and unique. You don't have to like someone's playing characteristics or style. I've played with many people that act out just like he does and it has never touched me or my confidence in my play. To tell you the truth, read my post. I stated that even if HD wasn't acting out, he still had bad hands. Period. Enough said about his topic. We can agree to disagree. Much blessings to you all. Peace......

 

Correction to Setting the Record Straight

Please let me correct my earlier post. I am surprised that no one has called me on it, yet. Had Joe won anything less than an all in double, and the dealer busted, I would have been there for the last hand with a $106,250 bankroll; not a $56,250.

Yet another mistake by Norm!

 

Norm - great post. Once again I must apologize for my inadequacy for a proper comprehension of the English language. Can someone loan me a good theshareus?

My point is that given his position, BR2, I felt that the double for less was more appropriate. That's all. Under the studio lights, time constraints, pressure, etc. I can fully understand Joe's DD.

My point, as a Tuesday morning quarterback, is not to 'dis' players or events. I just put my .25 out there. To be honest with you I wasn't aware of the wild-card scenario as you pointed out.

Heck, Joe made it to the big show and I didn't! So kuddo's to him.

Excellent point. In fact I believe it was her large bet of $30,000 that prompted Joe's all-in DD. For example if Alice on min bets there wouldn't have been a need for an all-in move on the part of Joe.

My hats off to all participants. Norm, I hope you got better cards in the wild-card than in the first match because frankly almost every hand you got sucked. For you to pull a 2nd place with those cards, in my mind, just shows YOUR skill.

PS I loved your "diapers" comment to Hollywood Dave :laugh:

 

"Be it psychology, misdirection or just distraction, the benefits of being able to play a strong game while altering someone else's are huge."

I personally practice at making the fastest count and bet as I can...

This leaaves me plenty of time to chat to distraction anyone trying to count chips and decide on a bet...

That said ...I usually keep quiet because I feel its cheating at least somewhat to keep up a constant chatter whos sole point is to distract a player from making a better bet.


So Ace you have no problem if I sit beside you and keep up a constant chatter of number count such as 150,225,175,348,...etc????

I can see a little chatter such as "better not double"...or "splitting those tens was really dumb"..etc....but what you are talking about seems like cheating to me in this game...

Maybe Im the only one here that feels like that tho....I would gladly switch over as I have practiced my game to allow maximum chatter time....

Hey Ace...whatcha ya gonna bet???Does he have 4,500 chips or is it 5,500 chips...yada yada yada....on and on til your time runs out.

Not cheating???

 

Hopefully nobody posts a definition of cheater

Yep, me, Hollywood and whomever else talks to opponents at a table are all cheaters...you got us there.

 

I gotta go with Ace on this one. If you don't subscribe to ALL IN, they did a great article in the July issue about poker players who have switched to EBJ (well at least play EBJ in addition to poker). I posted a review of the article here and highly recommend reading that to anyone interested playing in a LIVE EBJ event
http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3853
What I neglected to mention about that article is that it begins by talking about Freddy Deeb. Here's a quote: "I'm a poker player and she's not," he tells an interviewer. "I can bluff. I can talk the players into things."

So should talking be "disallowed" at TBJ? NO FRIGGIN WAY. It's boring enough already. ESPECIALLY for TV. This season's WSOB has aired 3 episodes and my "beef" (and it's a minor issue for a BJT "junkie" like me) is that boring players make for boring TV.

Chatter for the sake of chatter isn't cheating but yeah it's annoying (just like some people say that about my posts ) and it may or may not change anything. Lets take 3 examples from WSOB episodes that I've watched:

1. WSOB IV - Episode 3. HD versus well everyone
2. WSOB IV - Episode 1. Tiffany & Phil
3. WSOB III - Episode ? Paul Haas vs. Kenny E

Three VERY different examples of table banter and 3 very "entertaining" episodes. Different strokes for different folks. So table talking...

Distracting - maybe, annoying - possibly but cheating - not in my book.

 

Power Chipping

I'm just wondering what others felt about the players use of their power chips in Episode 3.

Good use, not so good or bad?

 

Hollywood

yes, did you read his article in the last ALL IN - how to take advantage of stupid people...
I was pretty apalled by that - not amused at all. But it is a free country and at least it is nice to know what to watch out for. I wish I had thought it was humor instead of the truth.
I will stay on-line only if I run up against this at a table

 

Great Question

Hello fgk42. What's up? Well, I think one of the players who used the Burger King Power Chip didn't fair too well. I know who it was. It was Norm and the other guy at the table. You remember the double down later on in the game in which the player next to Norm used his power chip and when he lifted the card he stood with the card and the dealer busted? That was a waste. However, how do you know if it's a waste or not when you feel your luck is running out and you're down by thousands of dollars, as that gentleman was? You just don't know in that instance because you can't see the double down card. For the most part, the power chip has really helped the contestants in the most opportunistic times in past WSOB tournaments. I've seen it. Didn't Norm try as well and he kept his card too on a double-down? I could be wrong.

Been going through and reading all of the post and many of you have wonderful arguments. You guys are so wonderful in here and I love you all. Some of you will meet me some day and we will have a casino drink on me. LOL....I'm serious. Back to the subject at hand. The females seem to have no problem with the use of the power chip. I will look at the episode once more fgk42 and get back to you on this one. This episode just wasn't a good one at all. I felt that you either had a good hand or just bad hands. I'll tell you who had good hands all night: The Dealer. She even turned over blackjack I think on two or three occasions. Peace....

 

Credit for the Article

I have the current issue and the May/June issue in front of me. HD presents some key points in the article. Taking advantage of less experienced players can be a huge advantage. However, many times a(n) individual that is completely oblivious to the basic strategy is hard to take advantage of. For instance, let's say you're a counter. If the count is very high at say +5 and you want to drop that $400.00 bet, it maybe hard to grab that high card, double-down(hard or soft hand), or splitting a pair of 8's. This would be really tough because the uneducated ploppy at the table you want to take advantage of may take that Ace that could turn one of those 8's into a soft 19 or 9. Then, if that maybe intoxicated player takes another face card(say a queen) when they have 16, they have busted. However, you have lost the opportunity to gain another solid 18 from splitting those 8's once again. It depends on the situation. You might get away with taking full advantage of a less experienced individual depending on the table limit, the deck count, if the rules are favorable( dealer stands on 17's and blackjack plays 3 to 2 ratio), and you can double-down after splits. Hell, even surrendering late would be great for the player at times. I think the non-chalant player could be taking advantage of at the right place and the right time in the most favorable conditions in the casino. Well, peace and love people. Love you guys and thanks once again for opening up the lines of communicaiton and dialogue.