$10,000.00 Match Play?

Really? I stand corrected...

I thought the head to head poker was just single elimination, I didn't know they played 2 out of 3 matches.

As far as the number of hands and and best of matches I am hope to suggestions from all those (playing in the event). The event will be for those 16 players and we be using the format they "ALL" decide on.

 

Amen to that.

I like your idea of an even number of rounds (either 14 or 16) to ensure button rotation between the first & last hand.

Honestly, i don't think this needs to go past a best 3-out-of-5 arrangement.

Using poker as a model, I like the idea of calling this a Heads-Up Blackjack Tournament. Also, using poker as a model, if we are going to have an event with a $10,000 entry fee -- unprecedented in the world of blackjack -- it seems a little steep to pay a casino $10,000 to run it, especially when there are only 16 people playing it!

I know it's only 6-7%, but honestly how much work are the casinos doing for that money? devoting 2 extra dealers/tables and a floorman? maybe an extra security guard to stand watch? its not like this is a huge event with much larger player pools and administrative cost -- if anything, this tournament would be much EASIER for the house to put on than any other event that week, so why should they made 5x the fee for it?

To be honest, I'm almost thinking that an event like this should be done as a glorified mini in someone's penthouse suite in Vegas, rather than a casino who wants 10 grand to host it. We may lose some of the bystanders, but to be honest, I don't think any of us who would put up that kind of money are too concerned about that...

I'm still in, but would like to hear thoughts on this, specifically from those actually involved in either playing or organizing this event --

-hd.

 

Don't shoot the messenger...LOL

I'm am just posting what was suggested to me as far as the $10,000 for the fee. I can tell you that I was able to get all 16 players comped rooms for the 6 days there included in the entry fee.

It's kind of hard to back out of the offer now that I have presented it to the casino.

Now I hope this isn't taken as a slam, (it isn't meant that way), but just to compare, for a UBT event at $2,500 entry to reach the same $150,000 prize pool it would take 60 players.

Now that 60 players X the $200 fee = $12,000 for their fees and rooms aren't included in their fee, subtract another $1,920 (based on $20 per night X 6 nights X 16 players) so when the two are compared this is still a better deal for the players ($8,080 to $12,000 + your rooms).

And for the heads up match play the dealers will probally be dealing and using the tables a lot longer in this best of format then a 60 player UBT event. Based on only two players per table for each series of matches.

All in all I think the $10,000 isn't that bad of a deal for all the players will be getting. Actually with the rooms included it will be even lower percentages to the house.

 

TV calls surely?

I really like the sound of this Heads-Up D ) Tournament and what's more I think it'd make great TV. If you can't get a TV company interested can I suggest a live webcast? In fact, from a UK/European point of view I'd prefer the webcast as I may actually be able to watch it rather than waiting for some obscure satellite channel to show it over here, and apart from anything TV is dying, everyone wants to watch over the 'net. You could webcast it from BTJ.com, LVA or even TBJPA and I don't think it need cost the earth. What do you think?

On another note I'd be interested in having shares in one of the competitors as I have 20 Pounds Sterling burning a hole in my pocket

Cheers

Reachy

 

Prize structure...

With all the hoopla about the name, and casino fee, has any one talked about the proposed prize structure.

Is it a winner take all format, or will the money be divided in some other way?

Due to the "luck" factor in blackjack, I would personally not enter a winner take all event.

 

Proposed prize structure

I agree with Fredguy, with a $10,000 entry I think a winner take all would be a horrible mistake. Here is a proposed payout I think would work.

1st = $75,000
2nd = $35,000
3rd = $20,000 *Note: tie for 3rd
3rd = $20,000

25% of the field cashes in this prize structure. Players advancing past the first two rounds will be in the money.

 

Who are the other 12?

So Hollywood, tirlebj, aralik and duro have shown an interest in the $10,000,00 tournament.

I am not going to put Tex on the spot by asking who the other twelve players may be that have shown an interest in entering this competition.

My guess is that Rene Angelil could be one of them.

Anyone fancy having a stab at naming some players to see if we can narrow it down and come up with a list of the possible candidates?

Andy

 

No one yet!

I've been doing this long enough to know that no one is in until the money is paid.

You always get a lot of "Yea I'll play", but until the money is in hand or I should say at the cashers cage, we have no one!

This is why I haven't said it is a done deal. When players actually have to put out $10,000 for an event it isn't as easy as just talking about it.

I would love to see this event happen, but it's still is just a HIGH LIMIT money event, it is nothing about who is the BEST player, only who is the best, that could afford to play at this tournament.

Now once we get 16 players confirmed (if we do) I'll post their names (if they will allow me) and post results from the event (once again if they allow me).

 

Bafta

I'd just like to re-iterate that I think that the Heads-Up Tourney would make great TV/webcast material, and that may be an opportunity to bring more money into the game thus reducing the vig/increasing the prize money. I'm sure Hollywood must have contacts or know someone with a good videocamera...

Cheers

Reachy

 

$10,000.00 Tournament

I accept what you say Rick and was not implying that this competition already had 16 players waiting ready to put in such a large amount of money for a Blackjack tournament.

My post was about the members on here guessing which players from the Blackjack tournament circuit may be prepared to stamp up the entry fee for such a High Limit game.

PS I will give them a clue. It will not be me.

Andy

 

And it won't be me, either, but I'll be following the developments with great interest. The original Bad Boy is heavily interested, let's see if the challenger "Bad Boy" checks in when he gets done in Tulsa. That would be a match!!!

By the way, the term for the proposed format is "Single Elimination" - no matter how many games are played in each match. Did you consider a "Double Elimination" format? It wouldn't be too hard with only 16 players, I used to run that format in bowling tournaments all the time. Doing 32 in a DoubleElim is a real bastard, though. :juggle:

 

How about this?

I had an idea about the bracketing for your possible tournament based somewhat loosely on the way the World Cup is done:

Have the 16 players placed into 4 groups. I, II, III, IV

Each player would play the others in their group two heads up play. For example player A plays 2 games against B, 2 games against C and 2 games against D. Players get 1 point for a win and 0 for a loss. After the 6 games the players with the top 2 scores in their group go to round II. In the event that there is a tie it can be resolved in 1 of two ways: Highest overall chip totals (this is what I prefer) or 10 hand tie-breaker.

Round II – 8 players divided into Groups I & II. Same round robin play as in Round I with each participant getting to play 6 15 hand games against the other 3 players in their round. Same as before with top two point winners advancing.

Semi-Finals

Now have player with top points in Group I play player with 2nd point total from Group II. The player with the top points in Group 2 plays the second highest point total from Group I. At this point it would be best 4 of 7 (or 3 of 6)

Finals – Best of the others advance for best 4 of 7

The advantage of this format is that is allows players to play more than one other player. This way no one could complain and say, “well if I have only played player X instead of the hard draw I got…” It also exposes all the players to different styles.

 

comparison of the formats

The format offered by fgk has positive and negative sides:
Positive - comparing with elimination format the actual distributions of players doesn't hurt that much the second best player even if he gets drawn against the best player in the first round, because two advance.
Negative - to win you play up to 26 sessions comparing with up to 44 in elimination format.
Logically elimination format should be "winner takes all", but it may limit the field of players.
A lilttle Math: if you win your opponent in 11 matches with 6:5 there is 60%
of probability that you're better player. Now if you win 4 times in a row in 11 matches with minimal difference (6:5) against 4 opponents that means there is 72.5% of probability that you're better player than your opponents.

 

Side Bets?

This event could create even greater interest with the spectators if they are allowed to wager on the player(s) of their choice. I'm not sure a simple "calcutta" is sufficient. Perhaps odds could be posted on each player?

 

Maybe the sports book can post odds...

If the sports book can offer odds for such an event I'll see if the River Palms is willing to try it.

It could be fun for the spectators.

 

The reason for suggesting this “round robin” format is to expose the players to the maximum variance. While it may take slightly longer than a traditional elimination it involves more skill in the fact that the players need to know their point total and final chip totals in order to advance in the case of a tie breaker. This would, in my mind, prevent some of the last ditch all-in, DD on hard 19 or hard 20 that we’ve all seen, the Hail Mary of BJ play, and the occasional lucky Ace pulling out the a**.

Secondly I’ve read that skill will show itself over luck in the long run. This format would emphasis, at least with my thinking, that a player will skill would have the advantage over multiple opponents rather than having the advantage of a single opponent.

For example lately Joep and Hollywood have been at some final events. HD has always come out on top, or at least ahead, in those that I’m familiar with. Does that mean HD is the better of the two? In my mind it means that HD is into Joe’s head and has a psychological advantage. Now in a traditional format if Joe drew HD’s name instead of mine how do you think Joe would feel?

Using the above format Joe would only play HD twice and either win 1 or 2 points but he would have the opportunity to play against two other players. It just has more possibilities and was different. As I’ve said in the past I’m new at all this and I was just floating an idea. If it’s stupid just say so.

Other ideas that I would like to read about – Surrender or not? Secret bet or not? Size of starting BR – does it matter?

As far as odds on players – how in the world would that be done? I imagine that everyone would have 1:16 odds to start? How do you handicap that?

 

Odds

Fred, everyone would be 15:1 if skill level were equal. Which it is not. Assuming one of the suggested formats, much of the luck factor would be removed (of course not all or we wouldn't have to play the game). To illustrate, assume a match between Ken and myself. Ken is the obvious favorite. Even if we are almost equal in ability, Ken would get the bulk of the side action (just as some sports teams are bet more heavily than they should be because of exposure). Of course that would offer possible opportunities for some "value" bets if you know the players well enough. Would be interesting.

 

Handicapper needed

Walt's idea is interesting. Any suggestions for a panel of handicappers for such an event?

 

Heads Up

So is heads-up play pretty much unheard of in live events?

As it happens, the majority of my (online) play has been heads-up recently, at either Blackjack21 or GameAccount. I'm finding it quite useful as an aid to learning.

With only one other BR to focus on, the decisions you are faced with are much more clear-cut. I think that with the complications of multiple BRs and more than one winner removed, you can concentrate on trying to get the fundamentals right. Ken's motto - "there's always a better bet" - tends not to be so true in this format.

Another factor is the sheer number of games you can get through in a given period of time, meaning you get a lot more practice of the crucial run-in of the last few hands

Despite all my recent practice, $10,000 is a bit too steep for me though. In fact I had quite a shock at the end of my most recent playing session when I discovered that I had been repeatedly playing at a $40+4 table, thinking it was $20+2.

 

Hey Colin:

Give me two tens and a five for this twenty.