Russ Hamilton wins Bet21 $200 St Kitts tourney!

In immortal words of The Dude...

..."That's a bummer, man."

I feel for ya Archie, I do.

My only thought when I saw 'Absent' and that minimum bet was Holy F!

As far as the coaching goes, I don't have a problem with it, but I know most do and think of it as a no-no. Although, if Russ would have listened to Hollywood's Wong coaching comment, Archie would be going to St. Kitts because the dealer would have drawn a 17 against Russ' 14.

 

On the button I would have taken the high. The problem is what I saw on my screen. From my end, I saw Russ on the button. In that case, I would have covered whatever the bet was.

How can I be timed out if there's no disconnect when I am glued all the time to the screen, being able to act (on hand 29, from my perspective) with no message of absence and coming to hand 30 being convinced that Russ is on the button because is spot is lighted and mine is not. Suddenly, the absent message appears. To me, that's a disconnect reconnect. I believed that I had position on Russ. Now everybody tells me that I was on the button. When you're on the button and its you're time to bet the spot is lighted. Mine was not until the absent message appeared.

Right now I believe there was a disconnect, no fault to Russ or any warm human body there as a player or an observer.

I'll stay home instead of going to St. Kitts. I have work to do (took the day of because I could not sleep) and I my kid can't miss a week of school.

Congratulations Russ! You are a deserving winner and I want to thank you for filling in and let me have that exciting experience.

Personally, I lost before so there's nothing new. I'll recover fast.

See you at the tables guys!

Over an out

 

I played the game in silence. I was not even consciously aware of the chat option. Look, I'm new to this online stuff.

Being in the middle, between you and Russ, I really felt between a rock and a hard place. Very exciting. Now put yourself in my position. Would you even go for a pee on hands 29 and 30? I'm still holding it up man. I'm not a fool!

In my mind there was a disconnect. Tough luck.

 

Finally...

Im glad that everyone was there last night to witness the major bug in this program that I have been complaining about since almost day one.

In the most critical hand of this game Archie was absented out! He did not time out....!!! He had the game locked up...the cards were there and the bet was there....anyone who thinks that he simply chose to stand on 11 is nuts.

This is exactly why I wont play much real money on this site until they fix it.

Russ Hamilton has every right in the world to play this game...and hes a good player...but he didnt win that game last night...or rather he won because of a bug in the game.

This bug does not affect all systems....I talk to people and I ask questions...unlike the CS reps at Bet 21...and some people never have this problem...others have it constantly....watch almost any game and you will see it happening....its fine if it doesnt happen to you, but, I have had exactly what happened to Archie happen to me many times....and its just too big of a handicap to overcome!

I started keeping records of the games and I sent them all to Bet 21...many times I have been left standing on 11 when I NEEDED!!! to double down!

Its impossible to win when some players can act on their every hand but some other players in the game cant act in the same manner. It is an unlevel playing field.

Bet 21 has mostly ignored my letters...they send two canned replys....usually related to the poker game which I dont really play ( I try the free rolls) and when I point this out ...well they stop trying and simply clam up. So they know about this Bkack Jack bug.....

I cant imagine that if Russ Hamilton has anything to do with the management of Bet 21 ... and someone certainly decided to let Bet 21 run this game at UB/Bet 21...that he will accept this win.

Archie beat him...

This is not an internet disconnect issue...its a bug in the game....or a problem with the servers...I have the most problems with this at UB...next worse Bet 21...and it hardly ever happens at UBT game.

Even Russ knows and was affected a little last night by another bug that I notified Bet 21 about....its a clocking error...the chat runs fine in this program...but the game lags behind in the betting, acting on hands and paying and collecting of cards...it runs slower and in fact if you are on the button...your timer is really starting when the action tools are still hidden from you...so when it comes time for the insurance bet decision...and you are on the button....the clock is running in chat...at normal time but you dont get the insurance button until after your time has run out....this is actually what is happining when you get absented out too ....most times anyway...and it is exactly what happened to Archie last night....no internet disconnect....ITS A BUGGY PROGRAM....Russ noticed not having the insurance oportunity...I think his exact words were what the ^&^)&.

I have stopped trying to help fix this problem ....they just dont get how important it is to be able to play every hand....I thought it was dumb not to be able to use all your money in bets ( the 250 dollar mystery money) but this issue can be taken into account and worked around ...but that is nothing compared to what is happening in far too many games....this absent issue needs fixed....!!!! Im not trying to break the game down...I trying to improve the damn thing so it works as its suppose to...and so it gets bigger than big and so that I can take everyones money!!!!!LOL

As to the other issues brought up...

Chat??? I didnt see where Dave was helping anyone....he was talking some smack...gee so whats new there...I suppose advice can be more easily given from the sidelines in this game but its also true that inputs can be made into computers to make decisions in an internet game..some people take the full time every bet ...and I often wonder WTF are you thinking about...who knows they might be entering everything into a program...lol that cant help them in any real game though...

I enjoy joking around in the chat but my advice is usually a characture of advice... wrong and in the opposite direction...just like HD buzzing in your head while trying to make a decision...you can ignore it...turn it off...or you can tilt out...LOl...its the least of this games problems....but if you wanna close chat and restrict it to only the players...wouldnt matter to me...I can ignore it when Im playing...and I always make my own decisions no mater whos giving the advice...non issue for me.

Archie ...you got screwed ...you won this event...you were a victim of the bug Ive been trying to get fixed almost since day one....

I know they think it otherwise ..they blame internet connection, your system, etc...but they stop replying when you point out that if it is indeed my internet, my system then why does the Poker Game run fast and perfect on my system???? Huh Huh Huh??? No reply.

At the very least you should be refunded your $215...but that doesnt change the fact that you had the game in the bag...

They should thanking me (even paying me) for trying to help fix these issues before it drives away the people dipping their feet into these waters...theres already enough sharks to fight off let alone bugs crawling into and out of a game every so often. lol

Its my opinion that if this problem isnt fixed ...it will kill the real money game in short order...thats sad because I really love the game!!!

Along with the cheers and horay and champagne...you gotta keep your eyes open for leaks in the boat ...so ya dont sink the dam thing.

 

Coaching?

man, you can keep some of the people happy some of the time but never all the people all the time...

listen, while i hear what you guys are saying about coaching from the sidelines, i think two points need to be made abundantly clear:

first and foremost, this is Russ Hamilton we're talking about here. For those of you who don't know your blackjack tourney history, he's much more than just the creator of the EBJ format (as if that isn't enough). He was also instrumental back in the late 80's/early 90's in taking Wong's concepts to a whole new level. After Stanford threw the towel in, Russ/Blair/Curtis/etc went out and completely cleaned up on the tourney circuit, against players who were clueless as WELL as the new 'Wong pros' out there. The fact that anyone would even suggest that he in any way needed/wanted my 'help' or 'coaching' or even a friendly 'reminder' on anything couldn't be farther from reality...

secondly, while i agree that there definately SHOULD be some chat limitations in place (like in a poker tourney after someone goes 'All In' chat is usually suspended), the fact is that right now we don't have any rules in place concerning that. In fact, one of the staples of the EBJ format is that, in order to make it more exciting than traditional blackjack, certain things have been tweaked: elimination hands, secret bets, and the like. But notice how all land-based/online rules, whether for TV taping OR just regular qualifiers, make a distinct point of NOT putting any limitations on what a player can/can't say -- unlike traditional tournaments, in which the rules always stipulate that conversation should be limited or even penalized. there's a reason for this, and to be quite honest i have been saying for years that the psychology of this game is completely overlooked.

The truth is, whether i'm in a tournament or not, you never know if you're getting the 'right' advice from me. So to cry 'ethics' or 'coaching' seems a little disingenuous. Every day there's something new to bitch about... i'm not arguing that the technical issues MUST be addressed, but if some of you had your way, no pro would be 'allowed' to play for one reason or another, the UBT would send you a singing telegram every time it put on a freeroll, and we would all go back to the stone ages of tournament blackjack...

-hd.

 

OK Hollywood

I guess the way to resolve the issue of perceived or real conflict, the questions would be 1) who are the owners/operators of UBT and Bet21 and 2) are they participating in their own tournaments? If the answer is yes, then the business optics are bad regardless if everything else is on the up and up.
B&M casinos would not allow their staff to play in their tournaments. Right?

And please before you jump all over me on this one, remember that I am talking about perception and business optics.
For the record, I am thoroughly enjoying the UB/Bet21 tournaments and I can also appreciate that these are not easy times for the UBT business start-up period.

 

Joe

Hey Joe Pee Pee Im trying to educate you! If these casinos were run in USA they wouldnt allow employees to participate! Bring the UB to USA where it belongs and the gaming commission can observe and give that poor Archie guy some help! Thank God I dont have a PC to go along with my 9 month OLD mac because if I were playing video games all night my wife would clamp me down outside with the coyotes! GROWL. :whip:


:laugh:

B

 

People don't put much trust in the internet anyway, problems like this do not help any site maintain creditability especially when a employee or owner is playing and he wins . On VIP poker the other day they had a software problem that locked up some of the players at the final table when it was down to 4 players and 2 were blinded out, to compensate for the problem VIP gave all 4 1st place money. That shows customer service and fairness. Let's see if Bet21 will stand up and be fair to all concerned.

 

2 separate issues

i get it, i get it, the sky is falling. lets all go panic in the streets!

look, we're talking about 2 completely separate issues here. 1. glitches in the software, and 2. UBT personnel playing/winning a tournament.

Agreed?

so...
1. yes, there are some glitches. they're getting better. wish i had answers, but i don't. what i CAN say is, i watched the final table battle last night, and on hand 30, when archie says he was "waiting for Russ to bet" -- it was actually archie's turn to bet. he claims that a minimum bet was made for him, and that the button 'reversed itself' so that Russ could act after him. Sorry, but this sounds more like the car insurance claims that insist that the driver slammed their foot on the BRAKE pedal although the car suddenly lept forward as if it had been the GAS pedal. While i can buy the fact that maybe a glitch created a timeout situation for him, i CAN'T buy this story about button positions being switched around after the fact. One or the other, buddy.

2. enough with crying over those involved with the UBT actually playing their own tournaments. Russ created UBT, but Bet21 & UB are entirely separate ventures. Yes Russ is a UB pro, but so are Annie Duke, Phil Hellmuth, and Antonio Esfandiari. Last time i checked, they played on UB all the time -- and people love playing against them. If Russ entered one of his own PlayUBT.com freerolls, i'd say you might have a point. But Bet21? c'mon. Nobody had a problem when Russ was buying in & losing these $200 events practically every night for the past 2 weeks, but now that he's gone & won one, you're ready to crucify him. Archie played well, but to say that its a foregone conclusion that he "would have won" that tournament is a far stretch. On the last hand, anything can (and usually does) happen.

unpopular opinions around here, i know. but someone needs to be the voice of reason sometimes..

-hd.

 

I agree with your statement pokernut, however the players are going into these tournaments knowing that Russ, Anthony, David_M, Michael C, and others top players are signed up before hand.

No one has a gun to their heads making them play, as a matter of fact had Russ not played they wouldn't have had enough players last night.

Believe me as one who puts on tournaments, I know first hand that playing in them is a no win situation. You have two things that can happen:

1. You lose and your out money for the entry or,

2. You win (or place) and everyone thinks something is up.

It is a no win situation, that is why I just run my tournaments and don't play in them (except sit & goes).

Now being online adds a different twist to the problem, as pokernut pointed out "players don't fully trust internet gambling".

So we have a couple of problems.

1. Do we just not play when a owner or team member is signed on to play or

2. Do we allow them to play only when they are needed to fill up the required 30 players.

It come's down to trust, either you trust them or you don't and if you don't then why are you playing there to begin with?

 

Two voices of reason in a row ...

... The sky really is falling.

 

My apology (I asked Ken to post it for me) for putting in doubt Russ victory the way I did. Indeed, it was a great match and I finished in second place.

 

I was not watching so I do not know what the problem was but if the software problem could have in any way affected the outcome then I feel BET21 should step up and award all involved a 1st place prize as this would help maintain creditability especially when a employee or owner is playing. Most of the poker sites handle software issues this way. Why should a BJ site be any different? Or I guess you could always complain to the Kahnawake Gaming Commission LOL. I commend you for not playing in your own events.

 

Archie

You're definitely a class act to respond in that manner.

 

Sorry but that's not what I saw...

I dont know about all the hand switching talk..that may have gone on....

On the last hand... Russ was on the button....I joked in chat that Russ will bet 100,000 which he did I believe...(it was secret bet) HD gave a lol at that one...

The move passed to Archie but no way in hell did he have the full amount of time ...nor did he time out trying to make a decision...I was watching on pins and needles. I dont have the exact numbers but I remember thinking that Archie had the lead....Russ was on the button....this is elementary...with the secret bet ..all you need to do is cover a 100, 000 max bet and win and lose you win w/o a turn.

No way in hell would you bet only 1000...

Im sure CS is blaming you....and has you convinced its your issue...but I was watching...and I was watching the countdown clock too....this is the exact bug I have complained about OFTEN!

You didnt lose that match....no way! If it was reset up to the exact same situation on the last hand ...you would win most of the time...the odds favor you ...being on the left, past the button, and BR1...how did they talk you out of this?

This is a reported problem...I can show you 25 emails to Bet 21 CS that outlines this exact problem! The game action runs slower than the game clock... thus your 45 seconds or whatever, is used up by a delay in the program while it pays out the last hand.... and as it trys to reconcile all these moves with the many different systems ...thats why some have problems and others never do....its not your connection....

They told me this at first too....I believed them and so I called my ISP and had my high speed DSL line checked ( The techs actually came to my house)...no problems....I had my system checked and cleaned up to insure I could play this game I love with out issue...other than , bad luck, dumb moves etc...lol

Guess what....time after time I am left in the lurch ...just as Archie was....still.

I dont know how they convinced you that this was your fault....I was watching ...rivited!!!! You certainly were confused if you thought hand 29 and 30 were reversed..that did not happen... but you did not let 45 seconds pass by trying to decide if Russ bet 100, 000 ( I think he was down 30, 40 thousand...CS could tell you the bet amounts) A perfect move would have been to cover his potential 100, 000 max bet...a more conservitave move would have you covering your strong lead.....

No explaination in hell has you betting 1,000 which is what the absent out error did for you....you didnt play your last hand...but you certainly didnt use 45 seconds up....NO way...I was watching ...I saw it....and when it happened I knew exactly how and why it happened....

And its going to happen again ....Im simply not making this $hit up...I have no reason to... I dont have a horse in this race.

The other issue of Russ playing....bull crap....stop making it an issue...its a red herring....he plunked his 215 and frankly I cant wait to play all these guys someday ...Hollywood, Russ,Annie ( I already beat her) Phil Hell mouth...you dont have to play against these guys... geesh....if you see them there and dont want to play...simple ...hit unregister....its a non issue! Stop trying to make it one.

Im glad this happened during a game where attention might get put on fixing this quirk ....

This problem was caused by a bug in this program...if its not fixed it will continue to rear its ugly head over and over...its not a matter of a St Kitts entry and a couple days vacation (small potatoes in the big pic)....they simply need to fix this problem...hopefully this will serve as a highlight to a reoccuring problem...a good programmer can track it down and fix it...all is well.

Or they continue ignoring this problem and trying to pass it off as an internet connection issue ( yes I understand that ocasionally there are internet connection issues)...Whats Dr Phil always say???...."You cant fix a problem until you acknowledge that there is a problem."

Archie there is nothing to apoligize about...you were slightly confused about the real problem but rest assured....you did not lose becasue of your action...or non action as it were...the game went beep..click click..absent ...= minimum bet...unfortunatly this was the KEY hand of the game.....Its not fair and if they dont fix it you will continue to see this problem....I know I have played this game more than anyone ....thousands of times already....

Its why I only play limited or no real money games until they fix it....

 

Archie,

While I did not see the game, or the resulting chaos, I have to admit that your letter proved one very important point - you've got class.

I was glad to read you letter and happy that you feel the matter is settled. I think that it is time to put the Oliver Stone conspiracy theories to rest.

The next time I see you at the tables I hope its to my right!

 

There is always 1 or 2 who just wont quit

Kenny E and I got to know Archie through the radio show. He was a loyal listener who tunes in at every chance he has. He actually sent Kenny and I an email on a tournament strategy question which we were more than happy to answer for him . A week or so later he wins a tournament for 50,000 and calls the show to personally thank us.

I'm sure he would have won it without our help but the fact that he asked and then called on the air to thank us for our help showed Kenny and I that he is really a CLASS ACT

The few members here who insist upon turning over the apple cart day after day after day will soon realize that people will shut them out and not listen to their belly-aching.After all do we really have to listen to the same stuff every day that a "FEW" people claim to have.While the masses play with almost no problems at all.

One of the constant complainers is always in the chat rooms of it seems like every table just lurking and talking.It seems that his chat ability is not affected by all of these so called problems

He is also in every free-roll that I look on.

Would that be considered bitting the hand that is feeding you.?

The other STONED clown :joker: need to update his 1969 computer. I bet if he did he might be able to play instead of posting race car pictures. Is this a NASCAR Site ?

Here is someone who was there and was playing the hand and now realized what happened and still some people want to keep the firing burning.

I know Russ and if he thought that there was really a problem and Archie won fair and square he would give him the seat that he won.

As much as members here keep on insisting that UBT and Bet 21 are the same .THEY ARE NOT............

Archie emailed me at 3am last night and i personally started the ball rolling in getting this problem fixed if it needed fixing or a solid explanation to him as to what happened.

That seems to have been accomplished

Joep

 

"Ask Joe"

Ok then, who are the owners of Bet21.com and who are the owners of UBT?

 

Are You For Real

Is this going to make a difference in your decision as to if you play at www.PlauUBT.com or at www.Bet21.com :joker:

You know If someone is offering me a service that I enjoy and the pricing of the product is reasonable and meets my satisfaction . Who gives a Rat's Ass who the owner is.

But if this is a must need for you I can only suggest that you contact each one of these separate companies for a list of owners and executives.

While you are at it find out who the bathroom attendant is at the UBT offices in LA they have the cleanest mens room I have ever taken a
WIZ IN

Next time I'm in my local supermarket and they are providing me with a service that I need and enjoy like T Bone Steaks before I buy the steaks I will demand to know who the owner is .


Joep