Sign-up for the $10,000 one on one matches

Since Hollywood make reference to this email, let it be seen by all who are considering playing in this event and not to the select few who received this email today. ​

Ricks original e-mail​

Hello all,​

I wasn't aware if you had heard about the $10,000 entry fee One on One match play Blackjack tournament I have scheduled for Wednesday/Thursday August 15th/16th, 2007, in Laughlin at the River Palms. ​

Since this group is some of the best tournament blackjack players around I wanted to personaly let you know about this tournament.​

We currently have 8 players that have contacted me about playing and I want to make sure you knew about the event, should you like to play in it.​

Just reply back if it is something you would be interested in playing in. For more details you may contact me or the format is posted at BJT.com​

I would love to see all of you playing in this event. We we also be hosting some TBJPA/TBT events on Friday - Sunday the 17th - 19th, should you like to stay and play in those events as well. ​

Joep response to Ricks original email​

Rick since there seems to be many different numbers being thrown around about this proposed event, can you please tell us all, out of the 160,000 collected in entry fees what portion is being held back by either you and or the casino to cover expenses.​

I believe the players that you have included in this e-mail are players that would want this kind of information available to them before they made a decision on playing this event.​

I personally would not play if any fee over 5 % on this large of an entry fee was held back. I can not speak for everyone but the rumors of a 10% fee or 16,000 is something that no matter how skilled a player is they would not be able to overcome this amount.​

The UBT 10,000 event is holding back 300 per player you proposed 10,000 event is holding back 625 per player if the numbers that are being talked about are true.​

Keep in mind the UBT Event has a guaranteed first prize of 1 Million dollars and is a TV event. 10,000 entry fees are not an everyday occurrence in the blackjack world .The players are entitled to a fair shake for their 10,000.​

Thank You,​

Joe Pane​

Even though I asked if Rick could break down how the 10,000 was being dispersed this was the answer I got. My question was not even close to being answered by his response.​

Ricks response​

The tips are being taken out of the $10,000. I am also working on taking care of the rooms for Tuesday, Wednesday, & Thursday for the 16 players.​

My opinion

If I'm posting 10,000 the person or casino taking my money best have answers to my questions and not beat around the bush when answering them. This is no way to start off a 10,000 event.​

If its starts off bad it can and will get worse.

p.s. I did edit the players names and email address that were on this email for 2 reasons, one I didnt want to publicly share a possible privacy issue and the other was not to insult any player that was not sent this email as one of the "Group" of top tournament players
​

Joep​

​

 

Interesting

My concern about the smack talk was two fold;
1) the time issue with so many matches.
2) wanting to play the matches based on straight play with no distractions because of the high entry fee.

I for one love to see both HD and Skip carry on, I find them entertaining. But at a $10,000 entry I though any player forking out so much for an entry would want no smack talk.

This event is for the contestants, not the spectators, but if the players don't mine the smack talk niether do I. However the time limits will be enforced (with this many matches they have to be). I did schedule this event just before the TBJPA/TBT events that weekend so any interested players could come in a couple of days early and watch these matches.

I'm willing to remove this rule since it is not part of the TBJPA rules.

I will list the official format and rules tomorrow. Then any interested players may sign up or not as they wish.

As everyone can see I am willing to discuss formats and rules and even the vig on events I am involved with running.

I am also willing to discuss why I do the things I do. However at a certain point I have to close the discussion for that event and should there be any problems we'll fix them before the next event.

I'm sure I won't please everyone, but I make sure I please the majority.

As far as the e-mail, I simply sent it out to players that I thought might be interested in playing that I wasn't sure if they knew about the event or not, and even a few such as Joep and Ken, no big deal. When Joep replied back to me my first reply was just a simple one, however I sent him (along with the others) a more detailed account of the fees later.

 

1) per hand time limits solve this
2) define "straight play" ; because you do not see value in the psychology of the game does not mean it is not there. Disrespect is one thing; "talking" is quite another.

and most importantly:

3) why are you dodging the question both joe & i have plainly asked you, as well as what many other pro players have expressed to us:

Exactly how much money from the $10k vig is going to casino, dealers, and you?? If its all above board, then you should have no trouble answering. The longer you dodge this, the shadier you look. Please don't do yourself or the intelligent players considering playing this event a disservice by refusing to answer any longer.

-hd.

 

Slipped in

Did I read right that there are going to be no TV cameras at this event Rick? Does that mean you are not going to film this event in any form, even as a webcast? If you aren't I think you and the TBJ community are missing a trick here. Please reconsider.

I'll also weigh into the smack talk/coffee housing/hollywooding issue. Please allow it, it will add to the entertainment factor (a moot point if no TV though). And to (miss)use an old cliché "if [the player] can't stand heat, stay out of the kitchen". I wouldn't pay to see Hollywood play in a tournament is he was gagged. Actually, thinking about it.....:joker:

On a final note, is it possible for a pride of TBJ players (can you see what I've done there? ) to have a discussion without recourse to squabbling? On recent evidence it would seem not. I'm sure it's possible to resolve the issues here in a calm and adult manner.

Cheers

Reachy

 

Reachy

I believe that this current discussion is or has not at this point turned into a squabble. Keep in mind that the questions that are being asked of Rick are well with in reason considering the amount of prize money and entry fees. Remember that 160,000 is at least 2 to 3 times more than a normal casino invite event that Las Vegas casinos or for that matter any casino here in the US hold on a regular schedule.

In the recent Hilton Tournament there was 100,000 in prize money for 1,000 players.This proposed event is 160,000 between 16 players which is more than 1 1/2 times bigger in prize money and with 984 less players . I believe with this amount of money any player considering playing has a right to know the business plan and distribution of all the funds concerning this event.

In events hosted by casinos here in the United States they are obligated to supply all players with information about all the parameter's of these events well in advance. This helps in the players decision to play in the event or pass on it.That is all we are asking of Rick. I for the life of me can not comprehend why a simple question of how much is being withheld and where is it going? Why is this being stonewalled at this time by Rick.

One is left with no other conclusion but to assume it something that can not be or will not be revealed, and this my friend has soured me on playing in this event.

This by no means is a squabble it just a few of us asking a question and being given the " Can I Get Back To You On That" and for 10,000 no you cant get back to me, answer the question NOW


Joep

 

squibble

Maybe it's just my perception Joep. I'm not accusing anybody inparticular but I think a lot of these discussions could be carried out in a less public manner. I get a sense that the issues discussed here will not be resolved to everybody's satisfaction and it'll leave a bad taste in the mouth.

To be honest I'm much less interested in this tourney without any big names involved. Other than Hollywood (has he committed? Sounds 50:50 to me at best) no other "known" players have revealed whether they are going to play or not, and I want to see you, Ken S, Ken E, S Yama, HD, David Matthews, Anthony Curtis, etc playing heads-up, not A N Other, Joe Bloggs, Jane Doe, etc.

It seems that the vig is the sticking point and that if this issue were resolved satisfactorily we would have a game!!

Cheers

Reachy

 

This event could be held anywhere or better yet it could be held where Max Rubin held his "Blackjack Ball" 2 years ago. His Blackjack Ball location always changes but there was one location that would be perfect it has blackjack tables dining facilities and a great view of the Las Vegas Strip and we could hold this there for a lot less than 10,000 in fees.

Plus meeting and playing in Las Vegas is always a plus over Laughlin.

We have the location, Ron Sacavino has the dealers and tables, and Max as the tournament director is the BOMB.:bomb:

Plus with Max's connection he could get this filmed for a possible TV time slot with no problem at all.

2nd choice could be right at Barona Valley Ranch right before or after the Tournament of Champions event.

We could put a 16 player team together to compete against a 16 player team from Barona.

Max are you hearing this ?


Joep

 

Ten thousand will be taken out....

Since the first time I suggested this event on this board I have always told everyone that $10,000 was to be taken out for fees. I have posted that several times, I have even comeback in several post that I was willing to take tips for the dealers out of that fee.

For some reason what I personally will make seems to be of importance, why? I'm sorry but my personal income shouldn't be an issue. What I personally make shouldn't matter or be used as an excuse not to play.

There has been challenges made on this board time after time, but for whatever reason the matches and or bets were never taken, now I have set-up an actual event, with a set location, date, and time. I am trying to set up rooms for the players and any and all fees have been posted up front.

The issue on the smack talking was removed, so really didn’t understand the reason of 3-4 more post about a dead issue?

And Reachy, I would love to have the event filmed and it could possibly happen, but until I have confirmation I don't want to say it is so. I think broken promises will only hurt future events. And as far as trying to keep things off the boards I was trying with e-mails and PM's.

There shouldn’t be a need to compare this event to others, but since that seems to be what players want here goes:
1) We have fewer players then most (only 16 max).
2) We will host a max. of 99 matches (tables used, with 16 players)
3) Prize pool will be $150,000 with 16 players.
4) I believe rooms will be included in the player’s entry; at least I am trying to get them.
5) Tips will be taken out of the $10,000 vig and not be a separate fee.
6) We will offer a series of matches for each player to be eliminated vs. single or double elimination from one or two games.
7) This will be an One on One competition

Now you can compare to whatever other event you wish.

Bottom line is this event will be held if we get enough players and if not it won’t be. I can tell you that some of the players I’ve talked to said they are willing to play with only 8 players and cut everything in half (except the entry) if that is all we get.

I’ve done what was asked of me, and that was to get this tournament set up, now it is up to the players if they are going play or not.

This event was designed to get the better players (that could afford it) to play in a match play event with a series of matches, taking as much of the luck out of the game as possible. The player who asked me to design this format, also wanted to see if the players who get selected to play on TV against a limited field or straight to a final table would actually pay to play in an event like this when their own money was on the line. It’s a lot different when you have to put up your own money up for the entry.

Please note that by playing in this event by no means makes you one of the best players, only one of the players who can afford the $10,000 entry. I’m not knocking anyone, but there is a BIG difference.

 

Complete respect

I'm staying out of the discussion regarding rules and etc. because I'm not able to pony up that kind of cheese, and even if I had it to spare, my game is most certainly nowhere near the level it would need to be.

However, I must clear up one apparent misconception. My respect for Dave Stann's abilities at TBJ knows no bounds, and Deb & I both know very well that Dave Stann and Hollywood Dave are two different people. Rick is absolutely correct about Dave away from the tables. When we were at the Palms for Deb's playUBT.com final table taping, her Navy son was able to get leave and fly in from the Fresno area to watch the whole thing. When he asked Dave if he could get a few photos of him, Dave, and his Mom together, Dave agreed instantly. Dave Stann is a great guy, Hollywood Dave is a character he portrays for TV.

P.S. Robert Blechman also agreed to the same photo request immediately. Deb's son was just thrilled and went back to his highly envious Navy buddies with endless stories about the whole event.

 

ok, no kidding this time

Oh me, oh my – I’m just so confused by this whole vig, juice, fee issue and I need some help. I was going thru the archives and came along a similar thread last year:

http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=1878&highlight=aruba

I have a question for the pros for me and on behalf of the 2 other non-professional recreational players (NPRP) that this issue can be handled in an easy to ready format.

Why? Well look at some of these prior posts:

For example:

Now I see where he won’t play if the fee is greater than 5%

Then there was Rick’s post:

Now the fees appear to be $625 per player (10,000/16). So what gives?

And this one:

There are lots more quotes on that prior thread and I would suggest people go over there and read it to give this thread a little more “background”. I for one don’t understand why it’s ok for a 10% fee on one hand and no on the other.

So my question is this: Is this $10,000 event REALLY about the fees? Is it about the format or is it something else? Maybe I’m just missing the boat.

Maybe THIS thread isn’t the place to start this. However, I just don’t know about these things – I’m ignorant about the subject. Most of my BJT knowledge is based upon the online world of the fee+10% which goes to the house. Now there’s dealers tips and hotel rooms, etc…

Could some BJ “pro” (Hint Ken Smith) start a thread or maybe just answer here, about what to look for in tournament fees, how to calculate the EV, what is involved in the fees and how to best determine when a tournament is a good deal versus a not so good deal? For example with the upcoming LV Hilton Millionaire Tournament I believe that I read where their “vig/fees/take” was like 25% over the life of the event.

 

I'm trying to figure out what makes me laugh more your post of pictures of me and Hollywood your 2 favorite subjects/models by the way, or you post that allegedly represent asking a meaningful question when its clear to many that there really is no question being asked but more like fanning a fire.

Do you feel like your pictures or misguided questions are improving your game? Tell us all FGK42 inquiring minds want to know.

When you dug up one of my previous post where I state my opinion on "Casinos" holding back a percentage of the prize pool did you fail to realize that we are talking about a licensed gaming establishment that employees thousands of workers in hundreds of different department's to make their business run. They should be allowed to take/rake a % of the event. They do have a lot more overhead than just that specific event.

But what we have here is one individual attempting to set up a tournament for the players mind you 16 players and take a 10,000 fee to do it,and also run an other event with it where he already has a profit from.

Rick should be entitled to make a profit for his tournaments but not 10,000 off 1 event that only is limited to 16 players.That is way overboard and until theses questions were asked he was mum on the distribution of the money and he still is as of today.

If Mega Casinos like Harrahs Corp. and MGM Corp. and one of the most successful American Indian casino Barona Valley Casino can hold an event pay their staff and still make it a go with only collecting $300 per player in a 10,000 event. I believe its wrong to make up to $ 625 per player with no overhead no employee's and the motto "I want to do what is right for the players".

Well Rick this fee that you are attempting to make 10,000 on, for just what posting about an event in which you have spent zero advertising dollars on zero payroll on is outlandish. The ones who will suffer from your windfall are the players who will support this event and its never a good practice to bite the hand that feeds you.

Fred never compare a corporation fee to an individual fee.There are two different animals.

Prior to the current rumblings the tip money was not included in the 10,000 fee. I guess that was a bone thrown to the players to silence them. Originally the 16 players were to pay a 10,000 fee and then still tip the dealer. In other words "BEND OVER" ladies and gentlemen.

Joep

 

Joe,

I can understand you confusion because sometimes I post for fun but that last post was/is SERIOUS.

You have to understand the I DON'T do this for living. I'm a recreational player trying to understand things that you, Ken Smith, HD and other "pros" take for granted.

Forget what you know, read my last post and tell me if it isn't confusing about when 6, 8 or 10% is reasonable?

NOPE - my game still sucks. I'm just trying to have a little fun and hopefully make a few peopel chuckle once in awhile. I'm an equal opportunity offender BTW.

A quarterhorse, a throughbred and a zebra are different animals but they're all related to the horse family. I asked that question because I wanted to know. What ARE the fees in holding a BJT? How much is too much? I just don't know. I can infer from the posts, as I did from the previous thread about Aruba but sometimes you ASSUME too much from the NPRP Joe.

 

Count me out

Rick, what little respect I had left for you is now completely gone. You have done nothing but create a tournament to exploit players and make yourself an incredible amount of money for doing nothing in return except post a few messages here & send a misleading email. I am *incredulous* that you have now gone from dodging to simply refusing to answer where this $10,000 vig is going -- this would be **unheard of** in ANY other tournament. Players ALWAYS know how much goes to the house and EXACTLY what % of that money is being withheld for dealers. The fact that you say you will take care of the dealers out of this $10k but then refuse to say HOW MUCH is absolutely ridiculous -- for all we know, you are handing them $500 and keeping the rest for yourself when you have NO OVERHEAD for this event.

I feel insulted & exploited by your shameless attempt to make this kind of money off of us. No one says you can't make $$$ for putting it together but this is obviously a very low blow -- and yet you keep hiding behind the fact that you're just keeping all this money because some random tournament player who brought this idea up to you thought that $10k would be fair. Well, Rick, as you can see now that you've brought this up to the rest of us (who have the means & interest to play in it, that is) -- it is most certainly NOT fair, & completely out of line for the circumstances involved. This is NOT a huge event, there is virtually NO overhead, and ZERO promotion. You repeatedly refuse to disclose essential details about WHERE this $10k is going, and you expect ANYONE to play?

I'm glad you have an "interest list" but for now you can COUNT ME OUT, as well as any other self-respecting pro who knows better than to pay the bills of a con man. For years you have excelled at putting the cart before the horse, and for me, this is the last time i take any stock in what you say. The fact is, you love to post incessantly about things that you haven't even come close to finalizing, as if its 'almost' a done deal. Try this out for size: wait until you have the pieces together, THEN post about it. And give up the tired "i'm just doing what's best for the tournament community" spiel because from the beginning its been obvious that you're out for #1 buddy -- just lookin' to make a buck. Making money is fine but your underhanded tactics are beyond me. And if i see you post another 5% discount code for American Airlines, a cruise ship line, or a car rental place "to help us save money" when in reality you're just making referral fees off of all of us, i'm gonna scream!

ps: one last item of interest. i took the liberty of calling up the River Palms yesterday to talk to them about the $10k buyin tournament that they are hosting...got connected to the 21 pit & spoke to someone who was pretty informed about the tournaments you're offering that week in August. Well lo and behold, he knew absolutely NOTHING about any $10k buy-in, even laughing at it & saying "i think one of the events might pay $10k for first place, but there's no $10k buy-in!" Strange, considering we would be paying YOU $10k in house vig to put this event on -- further proof that you are completely cutting out the middleman, shorting the dealers, and pocketing everything for yourself. Thanks, Rick, but NO THANKS.


-hd.

 

Hollywood are you telling us that the River Palms has no knowledge of this 10,000 event, Strange

I will go out on the limb and say that something with this big of an entry fee would be the biggest tournament ever held no only at the River Palms but in the town of Laughlin NV. And no ones knows about it

Where is the tournament ?

Where is the 10,000 ?

When will we have these answers ?


Joep

 

Probably next to our Deposit Bonuses Joe?

Let me ask you a question Joe:

If someone were to pay YOUR entry fee into this event would you play? Yes or No?

 

Fred I ask you this question​

If someone was paying my entry fee what percentage would I have to return to my investor if I cashed. This would be the deciding factor on if I would have someone sponsor me. or play with my own money.​

I would always consider a sponsorship deal if the numbers were right for me and my investor.​

Why Fred are you offering ?​

Having me as your horse, you will get your monies worth.​

​

 

What is the usual arrangement for something like this?

I ask because I look at this event as an investment opportunity. Heck I want this event to go off so I can place side bets - it's less risk for the little guys like me.

 

Every deal is different but I would advise my sponsor right up front that 10,000 was being taken off the top and I can not explain to you or him where it is going because the promoter of the event wont reveal these important facts.

Joep

 

​