Toke Quandary

Tipping

In Washington state you are expected to tip at least 10% of your winnings or risk being banned from the casino.

 

A "recognition of particularly good service" is what we in America would like to see. Unfortunately, tipping is so embedded in our culture that it's tough to change. Hell, we're expected to tip a Starbuck counter server for pouring a cup of coffee in a paper cup and the customer still has to put in the cream and sugar.

As for wages, the minimum wage must still be paid irregardless of any other circumstances.

 

Thank you for answering my questions and shedding some light on the truth. That's more than you can expect from some people around here.

 

Is the minimum wage supposed to be set at a level that people can live on without tips? I may have got it wrong, but I was under the impression that the value of tips was factored into what people get paid in a way that does not happen here, and that that was at least in part responsible for the very different tipping cultures.

 

Our minimum wage is not set for people to have a decent standard of living. It's a compromise between big business and those representing the lessor paid. The worker looses on this every time. Yep, sad but true. Most working for minimum wage are not supplemented by tips.

 

The fact is that you will get a question answered 99% of the time from the participants on this forum.

Asking a question diplomatically gets more responses than ... . Remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar - food for thought.

 

Wages

With that theory in tatters, there can only be one reason for the difference in tipping cultures. Americans must be inherently more generous than the British. :laugh:

 

To use an American phrase: NO WAY JOSE. We're just stuck with this system nobody likes - but it does work most of the time.

 

Most dealers are not payed minimum wage...a certain group of jobs is exempt from the minimum wage law (BTW Min wage is not a livable wage) this group includes wait staff, dealers etc...I have a few dealer friends...they are paid a token amount ....2, 3 dollars an hour and the rest needs to come from tips...the end result is that most earn good money for the required skill level.

The tipping is required because thats how casinos have set it up...they only pay dealers a token wage.

A typical person using partial BS and tipping 5% is losing lots of money. AP wont make up for this...

Interesting in Yamas previous post is reading a dealer as they peek at the under card...certainly worth a lot to know what is under there...a good tip may help to decipher a dealer tell...;-) lol

I personally feel that the system should be as UK ...no tipping allowed.

At most places they share all tips anyway....which is unfortunate because the rotten miserable bad attitude dealers get the same as the helpful, friendly, enjoyable ones.

The casinos could care less.....they want the dealers to fire out as many hands per hour as possible...nothing else matters...well they care about cheating dealers...thats why they have two people watching the dealer, one person watching the watcher, cameras recording everything, and then you have security roaming about randomly...add poor odds along with a increasing tougher game and now you want me to tip more??? LOL

I have lots of casino friends....they tell me the cocktail waitress usually make the most money...and good ones earn more than the upper pit dogs.

The average person gives away more in tips then they win during the average visit...

Tournaments are different because the winners are a concentrated group...I dont think dealers like to deal for tournaments ...its harder work...the group is far more serious and sober for that matter. And they dont tip unless they win the tournament....as a rule anyway.

But as for those concerned about the proper amount and what is common...2 to 20 percent depending on the prize seems about right....Ive never stiffed a tournament dealer...but Ive left a few regular BJ dealers with a short stack...


This dealer is portrayed quite well in National Lampoons Vegas Vacation with Chevy Chase and also on King of Queens show when Doug visits Atlantic City one night on his way home from work...they almost laugh out loud when you lose or get a bad beat and they constantly mispay and miscount totals....not the sharpest pencils in the pack...they should get what they earn.

 

I thought the minimum wage covered all workers. Do you know the reason for the exemption? Is it maybe at Indian casinos where certain US laws may not apply?

 

Not when tips are involved

Most of your dealers and wait staff work for less then minimum wage (legally) because they receive tips. Proablly 100% of the resturants in the US only pay between $2 - $4 per hour for their wait staff.

In most BJ tournaments I play in I throw the dealers $5 for every table I advance from, even before I get to the money rounds and then I take care of them better should I cash in the event. That is just me, I have been on the other side of the tables. Remember without the dealers we have no tournaments, now the 10% required in Washington seems a little high to me.

As I posted earlier, I think minimum of 3% up to 5% of the prize pool sounds like a nice tip amount for the dealers and should you wish to tip more, by all means go for it.

I would ask first, are all the dealers on the floor splitting the tips or just the tournament dealers? This does make a differents.

Here is an example of tipping 3% out of the prize pool:

For a $10,000 prize pool = $300 - Personnely I would tip about 5% up to a $25K win, 4% from $30K to $50K, & 3% to $100K after that I think 1 to 1 1/2% maximum is a very good tip.

" " $15,000 " " = $450

" " $20,000 " " = $600

" " $25,000 " " = $750

" " $30,000 " " = $900

" " $40,000 " " = $1,200

" " $50,000 " " = $1,500

" " $100,000 " " = $3,000

" " $500,000 " " = $5,000

" " $1,000,000 " " $10,000

 

Nope....not all jobs are covered by minimum wage laws and it has nothing to do with Indian casinos...waiters and waitresses in any restraunt not just casinos....dealers, busboys, valet parkers ...all depend on tips as they only receive a token wage ...2, 3 bucks an hour...

The dealers I know make about $55,000- $75,000 per year with benefits...8 hour shift ...15-20 minute break every hour....the worst part of this job is being forced to suck up cigarette smoke for hours on end...and there are also the miserables... the shifts are also goofy....something like 4 AM to noon....Noon to 8PM .....8PM to 4AM....I guess they want to be fair and so they make it crappy for everyone...lol

Salesmen and all salery workers are exempt from the minimum wage laws as well.....Certain unnamed big retailers are famous for paying assistant managers 20- 25 thou a year and then working them 80 hours a week....bout $4.80 an hour....a ways below non livable minimum wage.....

Everybody is making good money in the casinos tho....my friends wife who is an extra attractive cocktail waitress who also happens to be friendly made about $120,000 last year (thats about $58 an hour)....lol and thats in the middle of no where Indian casino.... he makes around 60 thousand so they arent exactly hurting by not making minimum wage.

The ahhemmmm Mart workers arent doing nearly as well.

 

Tex dealers should receive $5+ per hour according to the Federal Govt. and only service staff fall in the lower $2+ group. I do not know of any casino paying $2+ per hour. And most dealers make between $50,000 and $90,000 depending on the casino. In most Oklahoma casinos the dealers have to give 20% of their tips to the house (exempt from Federal Laws) and the Wynn in Vegas has added the floor supervisors into sharing the tip pool because the dealers were making far more than the floor supervisors. My ideas on tipping: Do you tip the police officer for writing you a ticket (you should , this might save your life by slowing you down), the fireman when he puts out your house fire, the mail person for bringing your mail, the McDonalds employee who hands you your order, do you tip the airline pilot for a safe flight, of course not they are just doing their job. When a dealer is dealing he is just doing his job, a job the casino pays him or her to do. Casinos make their dealers rely on you for tips because they're too damn cheap to pay their own employees a livable wage. Remember the word TIPS means to improve performance and service. The casinos wouldn't make their employees pool tips if they were concerned about customer service. So, tipping in a casino certainly isn't to get good service. It may be to thank someone for good service to a slight degree, but mostly that's just a false notion the casinos promote. You're there at the tables not only to provide the house with revenue but also to pay their employees as well. Remember the word TIPS itself means: To Improve Performance and service, so what can a dealer do to improve his service, NOTHING legally but maybe deeper pen but with the rule of 6, cut marks on discard trays etc. but very few will do this. Also remember the dealer who was rude, shuffled up every time you raise your bet, yells checks play when you increase your bet, when you tip the "friendly" dealer, the "bad" dealer gets a part of the tip too since they share tips. Early in my playing days, I used to believe that tipping would improve playing conditions -- deeper pen, faster dealing, etc.
In retrospect, rarely did playing conditions improve from tipping.
When I played at very low stakes, tipping would eat up much of my profit.
It was truly money thrown in the trash.
And to the dealer who hustles tips when I am winning where were you when you dealt me losing hands, I have never heard a dealer say sorry I am beating you, here's $10 to make up for it

 

Searching for Some Answers

99% of the participants on this forum are decent people who enjoy the comraderie and competition of blackjack tournaments. Then there's the other 1%. I think if you look back at my questions they've all been posed dimplomatically. They just require someone to confront the truth and that's something he clearly has a difficult time with. He has no problem coming here and falsely hyping things or bullying people who disagree with him, but when confronted with the facts, he runs and hides.

Consider this. The following excerpts are from a post I found while looking for some answers:

http://www.blackjacktournaments.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2860

One of my signatures on this board is " If you want to know ask Joe".
It seems you dropped that signature recently. Why? Are you not as well informed as you once were?

Two or three members here have repeatedly accused me of dodging questions when asked of me.
It's a valid claim. You recently posted that you were busy but would answer all the questions asked of you, but that still hasn't happened.

I try to only share information on this board that I know to be fact, and I would not intentionally lie about something or someone.
If we take you on your word on this, why won't you retract the statements you've made that were clearly not true, particularly about the bet21 bonus money situation?

2 or 3 members here do that all the time and then retract their false information and or statements. I will not do that.
I think most people would rather you retract something that isn't accurate than continue to defend it or just ignore it like you do. We all make mistakes. Yours may have been based on false information. What do you have to gain by continuing to defend bet21? Do you financially benefit from their success?

My credibility is more important than making a point or taking a position on some subject that I do not have all the facts about.
If this is true, you have no credibility until you reveal the truth about your involvement in bet21 and your feelings on the bonus money issue.

They have installed a new software that will track all bonus money earned while playing blackjack and Elimination Blackjack tournaments.Poker playing will still earn you bonus dollars also.

The deposit bonuses that are due players that have new and recent deposits, will appear in your account and be available to use in 2 to 3 weeks at the most.

All players who signed up when Bet 21 first came on line, will receive all their due bonuses retro active from Day 1 of their deposit.As this will take some addition time to check all play from the beginning, they have told me ALL owed bonus money will be resolved by Jan. 1, 2007, at the latest.
Do you still stand by this? What led you to make this claim? Have you had any follow up with the people that gave you this false information? Have you explained to them that your credibility has been devastated because of this?

The ball is now in your hands. Try not to drop it.

Bet21.com, Bet21.net and PlayUBT.com are the best thing that has ever happened to blackjack tournaments.Lets not blow this one.
Do you still believe this? Do you think that players should patronize a company that has demonstrated such dishonesty and disregard for its customers? And again, what's your involvement with these entities? Full disclosure is really what we all deserve, don't you think?

I have attempted to get my questions answered privately, but only received a revolting response that I will not share publicly. Why the animosity Joe? Why won't you stand up like a man and face the truth? You continue to present yourself as an expert and a big shot and say you'll answer the questions that are asked of you, but you never do. Instead, you resort to name calling, dishonesty, and dodging. You'll notice my posts never resort to that. I'm just asking for the truth. Why is that so hard for you? You publicly offered a guarantee that bonus money would be paid, but haven't responded to a single follow up from FGK asking to define the terms. You will come here and post tournament results but won't seem to answer any questions about your involvement in the tournaments. And anyone who disagrees with you is subject to bullying, harassing, name calling, insults, and abuse. Why can't you simply answer things truthfully? Why is that so difficult? 99% of the people here can, why not you?

 

What amount have people been tipping at the Sit-n-Gos at the Venetian? I assume they are expecting tips too. That would seem to be one of the things that makes those games almost unbeatable in the long run.

And I agree with people that the tipping culture at the casinos is far too excessive. Even in tournaments where they pull off 3% for the dealers, the dealers still treat it as an insult if you don't tip anything else. I think they are taking advantage of the natural high people experience by winning lots of money which isn't real to them yet.

 

In what world?

I'd never get a dealer for my parties if I only paid $5 an hour, I contract them out at $45 to $50 for 3 1/2 hours + tips and they get extra if there is any distance involved to the party.

 

If you are paying your dealers $15+ an hour, they don't need tips they are making a good wage for the job they are doing.

 

Looks like two different situations

Looks to me like you are talking about two different things.
I am thinking Pokernut is talking about dealers that deal from casinos, & TX is referring to party companies, which $15 an hour is a good rate for just blackjack. Knowing other games should & do pay more. I would really be suprised if Tx's dealers rely on much in the way of tips unless the dealer is attractive & inhanced in certain areas. I know my tips are little to none in most instances, but the pretty girls get the extra cash.