What's happening at UBT?

That's a new one to me. Please define "TOURNEY TURDS".

 

Max's term

The term was coined by Max. Below is the gest of the term:

Tournament Turds - players who give the casinos no side action, but will bitch and complan about every little thing unless they are winning or getting their own way.

I first heard him use the term about three years ago during the WSOB II filming. I don't have a problem with it, he is right.

 

Thanks for the definition, TXtourplayer. I agree with your comment that I quoted.

 

Thanks from here, too, TXtourplayer. You beat me to the punch!

I think his definition also included those who only play 100%+ events, refusing to play tournaments unless they are a positive equity right from the start.

 

Speakingof Max Rubin Im wondering if this little TOC thing at Barona will remove them from the #1 casino in the USA per his web site?

http://maxrubin.com/the_top_five.html

 

Tournament turd at the regular tables...

I've gotten hold of a film from a hidden camera of one of the tournament turds playing at the regular tables, may be this is why the casinos don't offer as many open tournaments anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=028oD4CEw_U&feature=related

Classic, enjoy...LOL

 

Tournament Turd doesn't have to be a natural person

Viewed more broadly, a tournament turd can also be a company. Let's not forget the players already paid fairly large vigs to begin with in this whole Barona - UBT debacle. Those who advised Barona into partnering with UBT ought to be fired.

 

At the end of the day as has been posted many times the idea of most casino run Tournamnets is to get players to play at cash games as well, If players do not do this when at events then is not a surprise that invite events are coming back, so a lot of players have there self to blame

 

SO TRUE -SO TRUE - SO TRUE

 

The point may have been missed. There are casinos that hold successful, well-attended open and semi-open blackjack tournaments with large prize pools the same way Barona did without having to end up slighting the players. They do so without buying into the UBT hoopla or partnering with a company that may siphon off all the profits they could have had.

 

'Nuff said

Yep, I’m an outsider, but here goes…while living in the harsh cold world of mundane reality might not be any gambler’s forte’…business is business, and it’s time for a reality check, nonetheless. Many Americans are struggling right now both financially and emotionally– due to issues overseas and the economy right here at home. Not that struggling financially is anything new for many Americans; however, on a psychological battleground, apathy shaped by several of life’s more negative and combined factors ultimately renders fantasy nearly impotent in dealing with day to day life.

Tightening belts, taking on additional work, these are the realities of legitimately surviving in this very real world. A great deal of the UBT format is/was based upon a rather crude fantasy concept …not unlike Vegas itself, or any casino therein - that the ordinary Joe/Josephine can get rich by playing blackjack, and that soft-bodied, balding, if not downright odd-looking little men with big egos and even bigger mouths, could win the adoration of not only the general public, but also that of young, beautiful women – that is, as long as these fellas classify under the enigmatic heading of “Blackjack Legends,” of course, LOL.

Like trying to tell an average ten year old of normal intellect, that Santa is for real; the average sober, non-addicted American male and female, detached from criminal activity, in his/her 30s, 40s, and so forth, has matured enough to know better. Dealing with real life on a daily basis – paying the bills, the mortgage, buying groceries, clothing the kids, medical expenses, even putting gas in the car, etc, they know the difference between real life success, and the pipe dream JoeBlow is trying to sell them to make himself a quick, if not downright “Machiavellian” buck. And…those possibly still too young and inexperienced to know better, are undoubtedly at least still vain and narcissistic enough, if not simply poor enough, to simply reject UBT’s delusional fairytale that pudgy, unattractive, and balding is anyone’s idea of international playboy mystique, LOL…or that anyone is going to get rich via the UBT.

Although UBT is trying to make itself over as some harmless form of entertainment for the whole family, while bitching ceaselessly about legislation and lack of community “support,” in reality UBT is just a poorly calculated attempt at exploiting people's weaknesses and misunderstandings, and attempting to do so by creating false illusions, completely nonsensical ones, no less.

Televised poker, at the very least, doesn’t attempt to promote itself to such embarrassingly ridiculous, self-deceiving proportions, and as such, has actually maintained some degree of integrity and dignity to the common American individual and household. Bottom line…UBT miserably fails to promote the game of blackjack as sport of intellect, reason, or strategy…and instead peddled blackjack as some sort of pathetic freak show and “sexhibition.” Smart mouths substituting for smart play, simply doesn’t cut it. Hamilton would have done better for blackjack, if he’d offered up some respect for human intelligence, decency, and humility. Like it or not…it’s time to grow up boys and girls… and these forums are a good place to begin. Anyone with substance who may have dropped in on Hollywood Dave’s vulgar “chat room,” some of the nonsense on LVA, or even here at Blackjacktournaments.com, as well as some of the crudeness and classless gibberish thrown around during online play, knows what I’m speaking of.

Knock off the ridiculous and childish pics and videos, the squabbling, the multitudes of make-believe identities and play-acting personalities. Face the fact that those who frequent these forums are minute enough in number that when all is said and done, those numbers won’t actually make or break a television show, and quit running away from what “outsiders” have to say. However, remember, what a television show does depict CAN make or break blackjack…especially, if people end up with a sour enough taste in their mouths after viewing. In fact, learn to listen and reason from outside perspectives… after all, it is the general public who constitute the actual “numbers” that do make or break UBT, or any televised production, period… and RESPECTING YOUR PUBLIC, instead of insisting your public respect you no matter what fools you make of yourselves, well, that IS good business AND good living! ‘Nuff said.

 

Wow Don,

First post and it’s a doosey! From you grammar, syntax and sentence structure I’m going to assume that you’re most likely college educated, in your late 30’s to early 40’s and most likely a white collar professional.

Since you make reference to LVA.com, HD’s website and this one I’m gonna assume that you also have been “lurking” in the shadows for quite some time. Due to the numerous posts about the physical attributes of players I’d assume that you work out but you seem to be jealous that it wasn’t YOU on television and given the tone of your post you’re probably frustrated with your family and work situation as well – hence you need to project yourself and claim victim status by stating that the UBT is exploiting people’s weaknesses and creating false illusions.

Wake up and smell the coffee – that’s called entertainment. What’s interesting is that I agree with you about your summary – UBT & WSOB for that matter, neglected to promote the mathematical aspect nature of BJT in general. Instead focusing on the “glitz & glamor” as you have so articulately noted.

You drop by and scream, “Grow UP!” Stop the ridiculous comments, the silly photo’s and name calling – be worried about the bigger issues. It’s a tough world out there. Well DUH! Some of us deal with that every day. How you cope with it defines your character. Will you be dour and sourpuss or can you find some good in these things? When the BJT scene appears to be crashing around your feet can you take solace in the little things, can you laugh at yourself? Remember all work and no play makes Johnny a Bad Boy (REDRUM, REDRUM, REDRUM – Google Shining if you don’t get it).

If you are the general public, which I don’t believe to be true, then pray tell give us the answers swami, look into your crystal ball and spew forth the winning formula for little minded people like me to see. (This is sarcasm)

But seriously you are correct in several points – namely the people who read this and us posters in fact, are a tiny minuscule portion of the real world. In addition when a company, be it UBT, GM, IBM or any other alphabet company, ignores their customers and attempts to “force feed” their products to the customer it usually backfires (see Chevy NOVA, IBM notebooks, etc.,) Feedback from the target audience is the key to improving your product something that TedinNaples, LeftNut and myself have been trying to do for the past several months – nevertheless after a while it gets old crying in the wilderness attempting to help those who don’t see a need to be helped. So in an effort to retain sanity some of us turn to humor as a means of defusing the situation.

So thanks for the post – I enjoyed it and agree with portions of it but try to lighten up a little will ya? After all this is a source of relaxation and entertainment for most here. I don’t’ know of too many professional TBJ around (hint, hint they don’t exist!)

PS - It's usually customary to introduce oneself before blasting away - just proper form mate!

 

But there are exceptions when handled properly:

Bill Gates - Can't think of his company's name :laugh:
Its how Gillette put its name on the map​

Boils down to a question of smarts.

 

Hmmm, Fred, sounds an awful lot like someone I met at the Venetian a few months ago -- YOU!

So when does fgk42 become fgk43?

I really enjoyed both your post and Don's post, though some of it went over my head at first. At least it's not one of those balding heads.

Keep those posts coming!

 

Don's message is the most intelligent thing written on here in a long time. Where is Russ Hamilton? He sent his lackeys out to take the fall. Einiger and Pane said he'd issue some sort of public statement and we've heard nothing. When the UBT needed players, those characters were all over the place promising deposit bonuses and television appearances and all sorts of stuff. Now, as their world is crumbling around them, we hear nothing. The true measure of their integrity comes with how they handle a crisis, and I think their silence speaks volumes.

Don is right. The UBT failed because they promoted a flawed idea with unsympathetic characters who believed they actually had hype that they could believe in. And they refused to listen when the people spoke loud and clear. Rather than incubate and nurture their idea and allow it to grow, they allowed their greed and ignorance to guide them. And when faced with a mountain of research and evidence showing they were heading in the wrong direction, their arogance convinced them that they knew everything and everyone else was wrong.

So now they are reorganizing. But more promises remain unfulfilled and the silence is defeaning. So why not come clean? Who are the investors? How much have they lost? What is the plan? If we ever heard the true answers to those questions, I think you'd all be appalled at the shady business practices that treated the TBJ community like a bunch of suckers. But then again, after the bogus deposit bonuses, the misleading statements, the bait-and-switch of season 2 TV shows, you keep coming back for more. You've been fooled again and again.

 

You know it’s comments like those above that really get under my skin. In essence you’re dismissing all the valuable contributions from members such as TedinNaples, LeftNut, London Colin, Toolman, Rookie789 and many, many others. Shame on you.

What is it to you? Why do you care? Were/are you an investor in UBT? If you are then YES you have a right to demand and answer to those questions. If not – why do you care?

Pot – you write statement like they’re facts so I ask YOU to provide me with the answers to these questions about YOUR statements:

What flawed idea? EBJ?

Greed & ignorance to guide them – give me an example.

Mountain of research & evidence? If you consider me, Ted & LeftNut a mountain of evidence then I’m honored but we three are hardly a “mountain”

Their arrogance – well on THAT not I agree with you 100%

More promises remain unfulfilled? What promises did UBT make – except for the TOC? UBT and Bet21.com are different (they MAY have been the same investors earlier on but the company was sold and the current owners are not the same as the original ones. Now unless you KNOW who the original owners were please let me know as I’ll go after THEM for my deposit bonus)

As for you wanting to know who the investors are, how much they lost and their business plan…Get a Life! In a private business it’s none of your business. As for investors in UBT – I KNOW Anthony Curtis and Kenny E are two investors – they have admitted as much in public posts. In fact Kenny E was bold enough to post his phone number on LVA – so why not give him a call and ask him – be a man and step up to the plate.

As far as the statement that the UBT is re-organizing, well I’ll give you this – I will not be fooled again. I doubt that I will be able to support them in the future until they demonstrate a level of trustworthiness – something that is likely to take a LONG time.

My point to you PotStirrer is this: Be careful with your accusations. If you haven’t even played in any of the UBT events – then why do you care?

 

The fact that I refer to one post as the most intelligent does not mean I dismiss others or find them unintelligent. But the fact that let it get under your skin does mean that you may suffer from paranoia and narcicism.

Actually, if I were a UBT investor, I wouldn't resort to asking questions on a public bulletin board. Nor would I attempt to mislead potential customers or berate and insult people the way that some UBT affiliated people have. But you refer to "those questions" yet quote one: Where is Russ Hamilton? The reason I ask that is he sent his henchman to tell people that there would be some sort of public statement. And we're still waiting. The public was promised this, not just investors. And so there is no misunderstanding, when I ask, "Where is Russ Hamilton?" I am not referring to his actual physical location.

Yes. Eliminating a player after only 8 hands of blackjack tournament is, in my opinion, flawed. It is a mathematical fact that the shorter the game, the greater the element of luck. I don't think that makes for a more interesting game or television show either. I also think the concept that a player is eliminated even if one has lost all of his money prior to an elimination hand greatly diminishes skillful play. Overall, I find UBT's Elimination Blackjack game to be flawed.

UBT and the people affiliated sought to prohibit other entities from succeeding in the Tournament Blackjack area. They sued World Series of Blackjack and harassed and threatened Rick Jensen. Rather than establish a healthy environment for their game, they greedily tore apart the very community that was their support. That's greed and ignorance. Further, things like high entry fees, premature announcements of tournaments, allowing people to harass others on bulletin boards, and promoting distasteful characters demonstrates their ignorance. At least to me.

Perhaps this was hyberbole on my part. However, statements made by UBT indicate that they made decisions based on flawed assumptions, and the results indicate they were wrong. Their failure goes well beyond the legislation that made it more difficult to fund accounts. That should have had no impact on the poor ratings of their television show. The point is they went ahead with a game and a business that they felt the public would flock to, and the public didn't. Russ Hamilton publically bashed other televised blackjack games, but then took the flaws in those games and made them even worse.

If you read more carefully, you'd see you agree with 100% of what I say.

Putting aside the deposit bonuses, which UBT representatives did indeed promise, there's the million dollar tournament in San Diego, other tournaments in the Pacific Northwest, promised public statements by Russ Hamilton, television appearances being cancelled and then attempts to cover that up by claiming they were designed as part of a third season all along, promises of trips being awarded to exotic locations and then being changed to Las Vegas, promising a celebrity tournament and then delivering no one who would be reasonably called that with the possible exception of Phil Hellmuth. There are many other examples.

Well it actually is my business because I have been misled, but that's not an issue for public discussion. I just think the people that have come here and attempted to promote their own business should come clean. Rick Jensen was crucified by some asking how he would profit off tournaments. It's only right that others do the same.

You don't know what I have and haven't played in. But why do I care? Among other reasons, the blackjack tournament community used to be a fun group of people. They enjoyed the game and comraderie. Then UBT came along and promoted trash talking players in live events, on television, and worst of all behind the scenes all in a greedy attempt promote their game and kill off any potential competitor. And the result is that everyone lost.

I don't intend to continue this as a public discussion. It has taken a while, but after a very long time the conversation on this bulletin board has returned to a healthy discussion of how to promote and allow the game we all enjoy to flourish. UBT has indicated they have no interest in being part of that unless they are going to be the only people who profit from it.

If you'd like to continue this a private matter, then PM me.

 

On this I respectfully disagree. The element of luck in BJ tournaments is still a major factor if you are playing 1, 5 or 30 hands. Knowing that an elimination hand is approaching and that if one player gets eliminated on hand 7 you will be locked out on hand 8 involved hefty decision making and much more strategy. Unlike a traditional BJT where you may be competing against 4-5 other players on the final hand the EBJ format FORCES you to make those decisions early and often.

While EBJ may involved more luck, because of the number of elimination hands, it also require much more decison making and strategy. If you disagree with me fine we can agree to disagree.

On this I agree with you.

On this I agree with you also. However when decisions to make TV programs are made and "in the can" after the public response is in there isn't much they can do. Look at TV programs this season: Caveman on ABC comes to mind - what a waste but someone, somewhere, thought it was humorous - the public disagreed and it is cancelled. UBT falls into the category too.

You've got a much better memory than I - once again the season 3 "bait and switch" was dispicable.

If you'll recall I defended Rick in that because I believed Joep and HD were wrong in grilling Rick about his personal business. In the same neutral, unbiased vein, I don't think it is anyone's business about the inner workings of a private company and whom the investors are - I'm trying to be consistent. I don't believe that two wrongs make a right.

On this matter I totally agree with you. When I first joined this site in March 2006 - pre-UBT there was a unity feeling present. When UBT launched there was a definate schism and I agree that the BJT community is fractured probably to the point of disarray - I know that my zest for the game has waned. Is it the fault of UBT/EBJ?

I don't think a GAME can cause a schism. But I do think that PEOPLE can. As for continuing this conversation via PM - I have nothing to hide - never had and never will.

 

I was actually surprised at your initial reply to Pot Stirrer, Fred. I pretty much agreed with what PS had to say. I'm glad to see that you're now in agreement with much of what has been discussed. I do disagree with PS on one point, and that's his take on EBJ. I actually enjoy the format since it keeps me involved in every hand, right from the start. I am glad to see this dialogue going on -- in a very intelligent, well written and respectful way. What a breath of fresh air.

 

Ted I agree that discussion can and should be in an polite manner. It's ok to disagree and no one always has to be right and the other wrong.

PotStirrer has a history of attacking anything UBT in the past.

At this point, based upon what I've read, UBT is DEAD. The failure of the CEO to address the "postponement" of their premier event is unexcusable and smacks of total arrogance and disdain for TBJ players.

In my mind the ONLY way I would/could support UBT would be if I were invited to a freeroll - even then I couldn't believe it would take place - too many could've, should've, would've for my taste.

THEREFORE,

I've moved on and since I don't have any money tied up with UBT whatever happens from this point on - who cares?

Kicking a dead horse does no one any good.