WSOB website up

Hi. My first post. Go easy on me.

Awhile back I posted on a couple of poker boards about how I found it totally inappropriate to label a tournament the National Heads-Up Poker Championship and have no qualifications for it whatsoever with the exception of who you know, your q-rating, or how you look. For nearly half of that field, poker skills were secondary. For purposes of integrity, if you are going to hold an event that way it should be labeled as invitational.

I do not see a similar situation with the WSOB and see no problem with the organizers (read: TV) making the determination that a mix of top pros and beginners/amateurs is best for the product.

Going forward, for this to be treated as the pinacle of BJ achievement, it should become a completely open event with no free passes -- regardless of past success.

 

Great Discussion

I think JoeP's oppinion echos my own fairly closely. I too was an invited guest to the 06 WSOB tournament, and I really don't think it's about winning 1 major tournament, but rather a lifetime achievement. How many you win, how often you win, and weather or not you have the ability to place in any major tournament. Obviously a win, place, or show in tournaments with a larger number of players, particularly skilled players, is more of an accomplishment than the nickel and dime one. But that isn't to say that there are not incredibly skilled players who play in local tournaments. What I mean to say is that you should try year after year to get into major tournaments, and you objective should not be all or nothing on one. YOU BUILD A REPUTATION OVER TIME, NOT OVERNIGHT. For those who feel left out, keep trying. You you believe you are one of the worlds best, time will determine you as such.

 

They Shoot Horses, Don't they.

We've beat this dead horse for as long as my adled memory serves.

TX gives a good arguement.
That's why for the last time I'll come back to UBT. As in the Hilton Mill. Put your money up and play. It's a level playing field. No invites, no casino favorites, no high rollers only. The format in the Hilton for the three years it ran was consistant. The only variable was the number of entrants per month and yes that varied, giving a certain advantage, per number of rounds, in certain months. But who knew when?

So many other tournaments are so varied. KOOL. Play accumulation and elimination, play live money, play crazy eights. That's the problem in supposedly trying to determine THE TOP. There is no consistancy.

Many folks have had success over the years in a variety of tourneys. Perhaps knowing how to play an assortment of tourneys makes one an all around PRO.

But(and I don't begrudge anyone who got a special invite to any tourney. Been there, failed at that,) There is a difference from playing and winning in a series of minis's, if one is allowed to play and going for the GOLD RING in an even playing field event, for big money.

Maybe to get the plane off the ground, certain adjustments had to be made, but once its in the air, to fly more than fifteen seconds, consistantly, there has to be an adherence to gravity defying rules.

Confusion still exists with Harrah's Mill maker. Different sites with different minimum entries and requirements even for entry. GSN's auditions or NAME recognition. GSN's Indian Casino fiasco. Certain locations went ahead with a competion, certain sites just awarded spots.Yes, UBT's select invites, initiallly.

But,UBT isn't casino regulated, yet. Pay and play. Against the top and the bottom. And just because the first specified competition is in ARUBA, doesn't mean, there won't be subsequent monthly tourneys at sites in the continental U.S. albeit not necessarily at casinos.

Off casino sites, where lawful, take the casino management out of it. Until a casino can see the value in hosting the event. Why is Harrah's(RIO) hosting the WSOP. Why did they buy, retain rights to the name when they bought only the name from Binion's? They have to hire a gabazillion dealers, discount rooms to the on line sites winners, for what? To have too many people strolling through their casino and hotel property for a month and a half? Don't forget the amenities they are giving away to the players daily. I don't think it's a loss leader.

And a truely competitive BJ tourney doesn't have to be reality TV to succeed. Just portrayed realistically, with a huge money payout.

Don't forget, when the WSOP started out the competitors put up the $10,000 entry on their own(or through partnerships or silent backers), except the first couple times when the best of the best, around 10 participants wanted to see who was the best.

The bigger money supposedly comes from TV, but in actuality it's the competitors money funding the prize pool. I don't see a major corporate sponsor doubling the prize pool for the privelage of advertising on the TV event. It's not the Buick, Toyota or Pet Smart open of Black Jack, yet.

Well I rambled on way too long and maybe that signifies how convoluted the transition from the past to the present to the future really is.

Good fortune to all. And to all who win a big bucks BJ tourney...you deserve it.

 

Gosh Joep,

Dont be such a cry baby....or is that your celeb persona???

I never said anyone was a hack....I do say that some of you are ONLY invitational champs....

How would I run the show???? You dont really care ...but since you did ask....JUST LIKE POKER!!!! And yes an ocasional BJ celeb tournament is called for...but you seem to want to hold that little perk for the whole show, every show....and you WILL get boring!!! Even Tony Curtis must surely understand that...BTW I loved him in Some Like It Hot with Jack Lemon....his daughter Jamie Curtis is really hot too....

The whole point is that YOU should have to earn your way by paying and winning....not be included by some past performance that quite possibably was a big money small inclusive group invitational!

What are you afraid of???If you are truely as good as you think you are then there should be no problem....Right???

FWIW...I have sat beside Ken Smith at a fair tournament....a REAL gentelman BTW..... I didnt win but I was the guy hot on his heels in our round....

I know ...I know.... but you are a legend in your own mind....

Id love to play every 400 seat tour....most of those today are invitational too....actually I think some of you .. MR PAIN already ruined the casino tournaments ...they just dont seem to hold them ......do they now???? I wonder why....

 

Well Mr Rando its good to see that you finally got done doing what ever you were doing with your other hand.

By the way I didn't ask you how you would run the show that was someone else. Maybe that old wife's tale is true .Have you gone blind ? :laugh:

But one would think with almost a week to respond that your response would be so much more informative. No one here really cares about what Tony Curtis thinks.

I personally believe I have won only one invitational I may be off by a couple as when you have many wins sometimes its hard to remember if they were open to all or a strict invitation only format.

But I will say this the majority of multi player tournaments that I have won were tournaments that were open to all and had at least 200 players in them some as high as 450

You once again non valid point that I some how have ruined tournament play is not only pure nonsenses but makes me wonder if the old wife's tale should include loss of brain cells in addition to loss of eyesight.

I wish I had that much influence over a casino's decision's if I did they would be know for making fair and not biased ones based upon who is involved in the situation that needs fixing, Once I did.

There was one tournament director at Green Valley Ranch that before she made her decision she would blatantly look up and see what players were involved and then decide on her ruling's this was done so often that I went to her bosses asked them to observe this behavior. Once they saw it with their own eyes they removed her .So if anything I make blackjack tournaments at least here in Las Vegas better.

They have been one or two other situation's where I have gotten tournament directors to change something in their rules or procedure that were incorrect and not fair to the players or just made the tournament better.

I will gladly supply these if asked.

Just recently the tournament director/table games manager at Arizona Charlies upon being informed that I was a well respected and knowledgeable tournament player by the other players sat me down and asked me to look at this tournament and suggest possible changes in rules and format that would make for a more efficient tournament.

He actually bought me dinner in exchange for my time. I'm not the bad boy that you are trying to make me out to be nor a cry baby. The only one who seems to be crying here is you

These made for TV small player tournaments are tournaments like I have said before that are earned by a players past performances and results.

Now if there is a race horse tournament coming up I will personally recommend you for a place on that show.

You see everyone loves a horse race with another horse hot on the hells of the leader and you seem to have that skill down pat .You just need to learn the skill of passing him .

Stop crying learn, how to play and win multi player events, earn a reputation and begin your 15 minutes of fame and we might just get to see you on TV.

In a closing note if your are going to run them just like poker well I guess you will follow in the footsteps of NBC Tournament of Champions that was open to all but after a few top poker players didn't win their seats they were put on the show. You see the people that watch these shows want to see the BIG names it creates more interest in the show even the players that they root against .

But I know when you see me in one of these shows you are rooting your heart out for me to win :joker:

Being jealous of me is really a compliment to me and I thank you Mr Rando

If you would like some useful tournament tips private message me here or if thats beyond your ego just listen into the radio show on Thursday nights at 6 pm Pacific Time I have been known to give out a weekly tournament tip.

Joep2

 

Sorry Joepa, Mr Rando wins this debate rather handily.

 

Lots of Crying

Seems like there is lots of crying from people who think they have earned their stripes in blackjack.

Truth is blackjack hasn't hit it big in the TV market yet. I can recognize about two or three blackjack players by face, and that's about it (just started following balckjack). If you guys can't get the typical viewer to notice you on TV, then what's the point of inviting the so-called best blackjack players in for free. Earn it like everyone else or pay the entry fee. If someone wants to sponsor a player and get them in for free, then so be it. The same thing happens in poker.

I also think it's funny that the champ shouldn't be considered the World Series Champion unless they played in the previous two years (posted by someone in this thread). If the winner played in the WSOB and won, then they are the World Series Champs. Why is that so difficult to accept?

Look at poker, does anyone really think Money Maker and Fossil Man were the best poker players the year they won. Not even close. An enormous amount of luck always come in to play when you are playing in tournaments. But they are the World Series Champs for that year. There is no way for you to decide who the best player is ever. Everyone will have their own opinion. Even if a ranking system comes out, there is still going to be controversy.

As someone said previously, the best players win consistently over time. As the game becomes more popular (or IF it does), it will be even more difficult to win consistently. That's when you truly will be able to know who the best players are. As for now, just play and win in as many tournaments as you can... especially the ones on TV, cuz whether you like it or not, that's how the public will determine who the best is.

 

Second that!

BlackJFan I second what Ken posted, very nicely said, I agree 100%.

 

LOL, Thank you.

I actually came on here to find out some stuff about the WSOB considering it is starting soon (saw the ads this weekend on GSN while I was watching my favorite game show, Lingo). But after reading this post I just had to throw in my two cents.

Looking forward to seeing the first episode tonight. I'm hoping to learn a lot. I'm hoping the hosts go into detail on the betting strategy. One of the things that got me interested in poker tourneys was watching Celebrity Poker Showdown (Phil Gordon was great at explaining strategy) and the WSOP (kudos to those hosts too, can't remember their names).

We shall see. Should be fun to watch.

 

I just wanted to say that I was one of those players who won a satellite tournament. I may not be the "World's Best Blackjack" player but I earned my seat in the WSOB by winning a tournament. I would like to say I enjoyed everything I saw and did in LV. I also realized before I went out there that I would be a small fish in a big pond. But it is all those small fish that keep the big fish going. I realize that you wanted to be in the WSOB but for some reason didn't make it but please don't belittle the small fish that earned their way.

 

Congrat's Redfoxx

Well one thing for sure you made at least $1,000 for making the WSOB and that puts you up on most everybody on this site (including me).

Don't worry about anyone that try's to put you down, I've learned just beat them at the tables is the best way to shut someone up and you've already did that so the heck with what anyone else says to you, you have bragging rights for this year.

And your right it takes everybody to get a tournament going not just the "PROS".

Welcome to the site, let us know what night your playing on so we can cheer you on.